Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > O2 in H20: Breathing Skills
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-06-2009
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 415
Alex-SG
Default Exhaling in bilateral breathing ?

One-Side Breathing
When breathing on one side, I understand you have to inhale from the mouth, and immediately exhale from the nose until the next air breath.

What about Bilateral breathing?
I. Which one is the correct cycle:
a. Inhale, hold, hold, exhale-inhale (get rid of the CO2 at the end)
b. Inhale, exhale, exhale, exhale-inhale (progressively get rid of the CO2)

I ask because a Coach previously suggested to do a. in order to float better (holding air in the lungs for longer before exhaling). It seems strange because that would mean storing CO2

II. Proportion INHALE vs EXHALE in Bilateral breathing
If the "Inhale part" takes 1 unit of time (T=1), how long is the recommended "EXHALE part"?
Assuming cruise speed for 1 Mile (35min)

III. Swimming vs. Jogging
Comparing a "Jog" and a "cruise speed long distance swim".
Assuming a Heart rate of 120 for both...
Would breathing be the same? Or would Swim require a different type of breathing ?

Thanks. ALEX

Last edited by Alex-SG : 08-06-2009 at 06:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-06-2009
atreides atreides is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 293
atreides
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-SG View Post
One-Side Breathing
III. Swimming vs. Jogging
Comparing a "Jog" and a "cruise speed long distance swim".
Assuming a Heart rate of 120 for both...
Would breathing be the same? Or would Swim require a different type of breathing ?

Thanks. ALEX
Good luck with the 150 bpm for jogging. I routinely average 155-165 when I run and I'm not even that fast. My resting heart rate is about 45 so its not that I'm not in condition. When I was training for my last marathon, one of the coaches suggested that a more disciplined "deep breathing" would be more effective for us. So I think highly trained runners may breathe more like a good swimmer. But my guess is that there is a world of difference between the way the average runner and the average swimmer breathe. What keeps me refining my technique as opposed to swimming relatively long distances with bad form is that I cannot handle the oxygen requirements of swimming badly. I see a lot of people that can but I'm not one of them. So I constantly try to fine tune my technique so that one day the oxygen that I am able to supply will fuel my swimming for whatever distance or time that I choose to do.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-06-2009
elskbrev elskbrev is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 65
elskbrev
Default low resting heart rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by atreides View Post
...My resting heart rate is about 45 so its not that I'm not in condition. ...
45!!! What are you, a Mac truck?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-07-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 820
daveblt
Default

Let's simplify all this . When your face is in the water you emphasize the exhale steadily from the nose and keep your lips slightly parted which means some air is also going to come out of the mouth .You exhale the last bit as you roll to the air and then you inhale through the mouth until the exact second that your face returns to the water and do it over again .


Dave
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-07-2009
Adam Adam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 31
Adam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-SG View Post
I ask because a Coach previously suggested to do a. in order to float better (holding air in the lungs for longer before exhaling).
I wonder if anyone has really tested how effective this is. I mean by how much do you improve flotation or reduce drag due to holding your breath. I suspect this is just one pf things that get passed around with no real evidence of being helpful.

Personally I just exhale slowly as long as my face is submerged and just before when I'm about to take a breath I let everything out so my mouth is clear from water. So that's about 80% out slowly and then the rest of the 20% out quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-07-2009
scrummaster scrummaster is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21
scrummaster
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
Let's simplify all this . When your face is in the water you emphasize the exhale steadily from the nose and keep your lips slightly parted which means some air is also going to come out of the mouth .You exhale the last bit as you roll to the air and then you inhale through the mouth until the exact second that your face returns to the water and do it over again .


Dave
Which begs the question: Is it better to exhale through the nose or the mouth? I 'blow bubbles' through my mouth and don't really blow through my nose.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-07-2009
andreasl33 andreasl33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 193
andreasl33
Default

I am trying to figure out the best breathing pattern for myself as well. Logic seems to imply that holding the breath and exhaling before the turn to air is the best option, because it keeps the most air in the lungs so that the most CO2 can diffuse into the air in the lungs and the most O2 can go from the air into the blood. If you start exhaling immediately after inhaling, the average amount of air in the lungs is smaller, therefore its capacity to take up CO2 from the blood vessels and to give a large amount of O2 to the blood vessels is reduced. This comes on top of the fact that one floats less well.
However, I have heard the advice to start exhaling immediately so often that I think there must be some good reason for it.
Then again, I am by no means an expert and just starting to learn myself.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-07-2009
madvet madvet is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 230
madvet
Default

".....the most CO2 can diffuse into the air in the lungs and the most O2 can go from the air into the blood...."

There is not a significant enough difference in this scenario to justify it. It is the respiratory rate that has an effect, not the lung inflation.

Holding your breath creates tension in the chest which is your core. The pressure this creates also increases your heart rate needlessly. On the other hand, forceful exhalation can cause the same problems.

The best way to do it is to gently exhale in between inhales. You will usually have some excess air before you inhale so you can gently "dump" that air without trying to excessively "squeeze" all the air out of your lungs.

In general, it seems to me that the best breathing is to match the type of breathing you have as you take a brisk walk -- more active than if you were sitting down but taking nice lungfuls of air without forcing it in or out.
__________________
John Carey
Madison, Wisconsin
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-08-2009
andreasl33 andreasl33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 193
andreasl33
Default

madvet, are you sure this is insignificant? The amount of o2 one take up and CO2 one can get rid of per breath must be correlated somehow to the avg. amount of air inside the lung during the breath, no? That's why lung volume is not umimportant.
I agree that the tension this causes might negate any positive effect. But I have not determined yet if this is actually the case.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-08-2009
atreides atreides is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 293
atreides
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madvet View Post
"....

The best way to do it is to gently exhale in between inhales. You will usually have some excess air before you inhale so you can gently "dump" that air without trying to excessively "squeeze" all the air out of your lungs.

In general, it seems to me that the best breathing is to match the type of breathing you have as you take a brisk walk -- more active than if you were sitting down but taking nice lungfuls of air without forcing it in or out.
Interesting observations. Personally, I have experimented with various breathing setups. When I started last year, the instructor(conventional, not TI) told me that my lungs should be clear before I went for another breath. Unfortunately that happened between three and four strokes. By the time I got to four, I was in oxygen debt and it got progressively worse. When I finally went to every two strokes I was , as you say, dumping a small amount before I inhaled again. The instructor would argue that I was doing something wrong. But apparently this is acceptable which is what I finally concluded. My problem is that I can't get comfortable with the fatigue level I get in the water. When I run, I get used to breathing as much as I want which allows me to get through the rough spots. When I swim any fatigue results in a loss in form which leads to a feeling of "I just want to complete the lap and stop" . Any hints on getting past this. I am satisfied that I am getting all of the oxygen that I'm going to get. Is this just psychological? How do I began to swim like I run?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.