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Old 01-29-2012
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Default Another breathing visual or analogy

I was to a Symphony Nova Scotia concert this afternoon. In one of the trombone solos of Mozart's Serenade in D Major I was amazed with the trombonist's breath control. If I had breath control like he has my breathing during swimming would be the least of my swimming problems. Some of his phases were quite long and his "bite" of air was almost unnoticeable. I wonder if he swims ?

Anyway, there a visual. We have over the years discussed breathing of opera singers and their breathing from the diaphragm; and now lets take it to the woodwind section/brass sections of the orchestra. Quick crisp inhale followed with the long slow exhale. Like the singers, not just exhaling - but making controlled use of the exhale. Maybe that might be a different visual - making controlled use of the exhale; and thereby giving reason to exhale in a mindful manner. I'm going to think of this the next time and see if it helps.
Mike
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Old 01-29-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from NS View Post
Like the singers, not just exhaling - but making controlled use of the exhale.
The controlled exhales I do while swimming is a carry-over from my breathing pattern while lifting weights. It's been a habit of mine to exhale continuously while exerting force (e.g. pulling up on the weights on arm curls) and inhale on the recovery (e.g. guiding the weights back down).

Carrying over this type of breathing to swimming, I do small controlled exhales for each arm stroke (I think of the stroke movement as exerting force similar to lifting weights). This I do whether it be breathing every 3rd stroke or every other stroke.
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Old 01-30-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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I used to play the trombone, so there you go...
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Old 01-30-2012
coicearonduri coicearonduri is offline
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Default Selling my domain.Thanks.

Hiya to all on www.totalimmersion.net. Just letting everyone know computer repair Las Vegas is for sale. I would consider any reasonable offer. Have a wonderful day!
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Old 01-31-2012
igorner igorner is offline
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Default Cyclical breathing

A lot of brass players use a technique called circular breathing....where air is being replenished while playing. This takes some practice and is not easy to learn...but I doubt if it would help in the pool (the head being submerged much of the time ). You breathe through the nose while playing.

If your trombonist is a swimmer the swimming probably helps his playing through lung capacaity and breath control......I'm a trumpet player and find it helps me.

This is an interesting thought even so..perhaps some other brass player could chime in with their thoughts on breathing.
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Old 01-31-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Now an ex brass player but having played trumpet, trombone, tenor horn, baritone horn and tuba in my day (not very well, but well enough to play in bands and even orchestras on occasion), I think being able to control the exhale is certainly helpful. There is a joke in brass circles about the well-known bass trombonist Peter Out.

In swimming there isn't usually a long time between inhalation and exhalation but I'm sure a controlled exhalation is the best technique to use, although some do favour the explosive exhalation just before inhalation. Mostly sprinters probably.
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Old 01-31-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Now an ex brass player but having played trumpet, trombone, tenor horn, baritone horn and tuba in my day (not very well, but well enough to play in bands and even orchestras on occasion), I think being able to control the exhale is certainly helpful. There is a joke in brass circles about the well-known bass trombonist Peter Out.

In swimming there isn't usually a long time between inhalation and exhalation but I'm sure a controlled exhalation is the best technique to use, although some do favour the explosive exhalation just before inhalation. Mostly sprinters probably.
I often use the analogy of an opera singer or a trumpet player with my swimmers ( I let them decide which performer they want to identify with), but not until I read the post above have I ever thought that my breathing might actually be somehow related to skills developed while also playing a ll the lower brass instruments (trombine, tuba, baritone). Tuba players need to fill big lungs and empty them slowly. Trombone & baritone use the same mouthpiece and there is a type of note called (I think) a modal tone...which requires not so much an exhalation, but a slow emptying of the lungs ina controlled fashion.

I guess I had a lot of practice before resuming swimming as an adult...maybe this explains in part why I enjoy practicing breathing in swimming and tend to retain a lot of air and slwoly exhale, riather than continuously losing more air than is needed.

Hmmm...
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Old 01-31-2012
igorner igorner is offline
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Default To Coach Suzanne

Controlled exhalations? We should talk to flute or piccolo players...the air requirements of these intsruments is actually greater than those of tuba players! Much of the air stream is directed , not into the instrument, but just above the mouthpiece.

Talk about breath control! I'd love to hear from some of these guys who are also swimmers.

This discussion certainly has me thinking about my own exhalations into the pool...it seems from all of your comments this phase should be as controlled and mindfull as the "stroke".
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Old 01-31-2012
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Suzanne said:

"Trombone & baritone use the same mouthpiece and there is a type of note called (I think) a modal tone...which requires not so much an exhalation, but a slow emptying of the lungs ina controlled fashion."

The slow emptying - ie playing a long string of notes between breaths, as done by the trombone player in Sunday's concert is what brought this all to mind in the first place. I was thinking how this action must resemble the "trickle breathing" that Terry has mentioned from time to time.

I hale from a musical family in that my father was an operatic tenor and a master of several wind instruments .. trumpet, tuba, trombone and especially the saxophone. I played the flute (or at least tried to) and as has been mentioned the exhale must be controlled and directed carefully ... but I'm sure the control with the exhale in the other instruments is of equal importance. I think my father would encourage breathing from the diaphragm for swimming as much as he did for musical efforts.
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Old 02-02-2012
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Have you ever tried playing an Alp Horn? I've played trumpet for 50 years and it takes one heck of a lot of wind to get a sound out of one of those! Okterberfests were a lot of fun.

There is one big difference in playing a musical instrument and breathing in swimming--when playing any instrument, you either are sitting or standing. Also no worry about balance or water up your nose. you are not moving any body parts like in swimming so there is very little extra energy. Breathing is a piece of cake.

But in swimming you are using a lot of different muscles. Playing trumpet only uses the lip muscle and the good old diaphragm. Plus you have a melody to use as a framework to shape your breathing pattern.

the only strenuous part of playing is a 3 mile parade!

Sherry
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