Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Favorite Practices and Sets
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-15-2012
terry terry is offline
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
terry has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Terry uses his TI technique to perform sub minute 100m races.
I only wish. Even in college I didn't have that kind of speed - peaking at about 1:02 for 100m LC 40+ years ago.
In Masters my best 100y was 57, at age 41. And, after swimming quite fast at 55-56 (I didn't attempt anything shorter than 200) my speed--at all distances--has fallen precipitously in the last four years due to Rheumatoid Arthritis.

However I now enjoy swimming more than ever. Partly from having finally decoupled my ego from my swim times.
Life is Good!
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story

Last edited by terry : 02-16-2012 at 09:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-16-2012
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 415
Alex-SG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swim2Bfree View Post
His best recorded time in the USMS database is 1:07... short-course yards.. Converted to LCM that's about 1:18.
Important to highlight this because Sub-1min 100m times are really "SPRINTERS territory as far as I know".

For me TI will always be the METHOD for long distance swimming.
And Terry and Dave Cameron are the Kings.

When you swim Total Immersion you know you are the most efficient in the world, the most elegant. You know that while others will get tired beyond a specific distance, you will be fresh and overtake them all.

I do not think the best Marathon runners in the world worry about running 100m as fast as Usain Bolt.

ALEX
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-16-2012
swim2Bfree swim2Bfree is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: N. California
Posts: 179
swim2Bfree
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex-SG View Post
For me TI will always be the METHOD for long distance swimming.
....
When you swim Total Immersion you know you are the most efficient in the world, the most elegant. You know that while others will get tired beyond a specific distance, you will be fresh and overtake them all.
I encourage you to learn more about long-distance / marathon swimming. You might be surprised.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-16-2012
Grant Grant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sooke, BC. Canada
Posts: 581
Grant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post

However I now enjoy swimming more than ever. Partly from having finally decoupled my ego from my swim times.
Life is Good!
Well said Terry. I have carried my swimming ego well into my 70's. Mainly because I was always getting good results. The year we all had to stop using full body suits twigged the ego some as times were slower. However I was in a new age bracket and ranked very high nationally. (Canada) So the ego was stoked.
This year having had a prostate operation in Oct and not being to swim the last two weeks because of a respiratory infection, the 2012 year is not going to provide my friend it's usual nourishment.
So I am in the throes of thanking my ego for all it's help thru the years and hope to it a rest while enjoying swimming in a significantly lower gear.
__________________
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
Grant

Last edited by Grant : 02-16-2012 at 05:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-16-2012
terry terry is offline
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
terry has disabled reputation
Default

In the recent past I've acknowledged finding it far more difficult, as a result of RA, to swim 'fast' in a few Forum posts and blogs. But this experience has had value in causing me to examine how I think about this. One prompt for self-examination came after I wrote the blog Why I’m Grateful for Swimming My Slowest Time Ever describing my reaction to swimming 1000 yards in 13:29 in a Masters meet last December. It was 'slow' in relation to my lifetime best of 10:45 which came 42 years earlier, and in relation to a time of 11:51 I'd swum five years earlier.
Yet I saw another side when one commenter said he would be delighted to swim it that fast. So--unless you hold the world record in an event--'fast' is relative.
Since my times have gotten markedly slower I'll admit there have been a fair few races where my disappointment at my performance took away the pleasure of simply being there, seeing friends, being vigorous and active, and doing my best in challenging circumstances. After some reflection I felt more disappointment in my reaction than my swimming.

It seems this coupling of ego and minutes/seconds is most likely among a relatively small subset of swimmers--present and former competitive swimmers. It can be healthy if it prompts efforts to know and reach your full potential, to pursue challenges -- but decidedly unhealthy if it causes you to avoid challenges because you fear the impact on self-image.

Several months ago I spoke with a woman, now about 70, who was an avid Masters swimmer in her 40s and 50s, but who I'd not seen at events in 10 or more years. When I asked why she no longer swam Masters, she replied "I can't stand getting slower." Yet it's inevitable we will all do that as we age, and a shame if it causes us to walk away from an activity that's so healthful. Or even to enjoy it somewhat less.

Since then I've become more mindful about adopting a values system consistent with aging gracefully and healthfully. These attitude adjustments -- based on the art of the possible -- have proven helpful:

Swim with as much artfulness and grace as possible. Grace has an inherently--and universally--inspiring quality. Strangers at the pool are far more likely to compliment a display of grace, than of speed. And when seeing a person older than me who moves with grace--I've seen examples in yoga, tai chi and swimming--I'm more likely to think "I want to be just like you when I grow up" than any other quality in an aging person. And I even swim races as a 'work of art' and commit to seeking satisfaction based more on my success in doing so than based on time or place. Admittedly the former is a subjective judgement, while the latter is objective, but that just means I have to be more creative and flexible in my assessment.

When measuring swimming by time, choose a current time as your benchmark. Measuring empirically is unquestionably good. A common characteristic of those who excel--in many disciplines--is setting up meaningful feedback loops so they can objectively and accurately evaluate the link between efforts and outcomes. After swimming that 'slow' time in December, I immediately made it the benchmark by which I would measure improvement in the 3 to 5 months (Masters short course season) to follow, and began making constructive plans for improving it. And I begin most practice sessions by doing an assessement swim or set. The data points I use to measure it always include SPL and/or Tempo in addition to Time, but the practice then becomes an exercise in achieving measurable--and smart--improvement. And when I do achieve improvement, I leave the pool with a feeling of accomplishment that provides the motivation to do it again.

Focus on the quality of time, not the amount. A corollary of the fact that any race is highly likely to last longer at 60 than it did at 40, is the possibility that the aging process may reduce the duration of practice (or workout) sessions. In either case, we should strive to make those minutes or hours the best they can be. It's entirely possible to make a 25-minute mile today feel better and more satisfying than a 20-minute mile did 10 years ago. Conversely, as I've aged, I've been unable to swim as long in pool practices. Probably as a result of arthritic narrowing in my lower spine, my calves and feet experience 'terminal cramping' after a diminishing number of pushoffs. Where I was able to swim a 10,000-yard practice (while training for the Manhattan Island Marathon)at age 51, I could manage to endure for only 5000 yards at age 55. At 60, I can often manage barely 3000 yards before I simply can't push off any more. Rather than be discouraged I've embraced the challenge of making every lap count, starting with the very first. My swimming now has a stronger sense of purpose than ever before.

I think I just wrote a blog. Look for it here.
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story

Last edited by terry : 02-16-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-16-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 787
haschu33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
...However I now enjoy swimming more than ever. Partly from having finally decoupled my ego from my swim times.
Life is Good!
Yes, I like it. Decoupling the ego. IMHO there is no problem with swimming fast times and still decoupling the ego from it. You don't really need the ego to swim fast. Although it seems that the egos crazy drive can give you the edge to be really fast. It should work without it.
Quod esset demonstrandum.
Why not simply enjoy the competition without taking it serious?
At the end of the day the point is: what makes you happy? And are you still happy if you can't swim?

As HHDL (=Dalai Lama) once said: Never sacrifice long term benefit for short term pleasure.


BTW I didn't have any opportunity to go for a swim since before Christmas (yes, last years Christmas). I think I need to seriously consider becoming unhappy.


hang on in there...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-16-2012
CoachToddE CoachToddE is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
CoachToddE
Default

Katy,
I totally relate to you current swimming situation. This is a long response but I hope it will be helpful and give you some more encouragement.
Approximately 4 years ago I decided it was time to take another evaluation of my swimming. I had been training with a local masters group 3-5 times a week since 2003 after a period of years of not swimming due to coaching/teaching and military career. I had been getting better each year and putting in more yardage totals each year. In Mar of 2007 I had a total knee replacement and in Feb of 2008 I had a total left knee replacement. Following both surgeries I worked extremely hard to get back to my swimming shape and form prior to the surgeries. I had started doing the annual USMS postal 1 hour swims in 2006. That year I totaled 3840 yds and it felt like it when I was done. Each year improved slightly and in Jan 2009 I had my best of 4200 yds. It was after this that I decided that I needed to review my stroke work and revisited the Total Immersion site. I had been swimming the older version of Total Immersion since about 1997 and had used the techniques with my High School team. I found that the stroke had changed dramatically and started to change my stroke again. I found the same problems that you are facing when I was at practice from my masters coaches trying to unchanged everything I was trying to change to. I decided for me that I had to take a break from the masters practices and work on my own. I did this starting in Sep of 2009 as I had taken employment as a Special Investigator doing background checks for people requiring security clearances for government jobs and wasn’t able to make the normal practice schedules. So the timing was perfect. As I started changing my stroke my passion for swimming started to return. After approximately 6 months I decided that at age 56 I was going back to my first love of swimming full time again and started pursuing certification with Total Immersion. This led to more dedicated practicing and improving albeit not immediately noticeable at the time by me as I was not concerning myself with times and intervals. I completed coach training in the summer of 2010 and returned home and to my masters practices a new swimmer more confident than ever before in my swimming career only to be met by the traditional style masters coaches who immediately started suggesting changes to my new stroke. I politely acknowledged their suggestions and continued to swim the way I knew was better. What I immediately began to see was that while swimming next to lane mates I was keeping up with them and they were stroking one and a half to two times faster. I continued on incorporating my skill building drills into the drill sets and warm-ups, i.e., instead of kicking with a kick board flat on my stomach I skated left and right side, instead of doing the traditional catch-up I did swingswitches keeping on wide tracks, etc. I was almost sidetracked one day early on after my return when I heard the coach yell out 15 x 100 on 1:35 (m) for my lane. I panicked as I only thought was on the interval time. Before I knew it we pushed off and away I went thrashing my way to a 1:28. I figured I needed 5-8 sec rest to make this set and that was were my mind went. I completed 3 more and then I realized that I had been so caught up in the process of time/interval that I had not even counted strokes per length. I pushed off on the next one and counted – 22 and a 1:27. I said no more and told my land mates I was going last I needed to concentrate on my stroke while saying to myself that I was not going over 20 strokes per length again no matter what my time was. I pushed off and succeeded holding 20’s and came in at 1:28 but much more refreshed than the preivous 28’s. I finished the next 10 100’s successfully completing MY swimming.

Since then I have adapted TI to all my masters swimming workouts and in the past year have incorporated the Tempo Trainer as well, much to the dismay (beep, beep, beep) of my fellow swimmers.
So back to my progress with the one hour postal. So in 2011 I came back having just been doing TI drills and laps to swim the one hour. Our pool was holding a winter Ironman (swim, bike and run indoors). I decided this was a good test prior to the official one hour to see how long it would take me to swim 3900 m. I did it maintaining stroke count every lap in 69 minutes and felt great. I decided to do the official one hour the same way with no sprinting or increasing tempo the last 5 minutes and I went 3700 m or 4045 yds. I was better than 3 years of returning hard practices but not as good as my best effort 2 years earlier but within striking distance. I continued this past year utilizing the TT and SC. My SC now for a 1:28 100 is 18 per length. I did the one hour this year holding 18-20 SPL and did not try to increase tempo till the last 2 minutes (which only lasted one length as I felt I was going faster at the slower tempo and backed off) I achieved a PR of 3845M or 4200 yds.
The short of this is yes it is applicable to interval pool training. Just this past week I was swimming with the head coach in another lane and she is a sprinter. We were doing 100s again. We would leave and she would have a good one and half body lengths on me at the 25 turn and then by the 75 turn I had cut the lead to half a body length—why? She was slowing down and I was not, I was holding pace and SPL. I could tell that she was putting extra effort into the last 25s so I would not catch her—so I just smiled to myself let her go and stayed within my stroke.
It can be done with mindful practice and staying within yourself and not letting the competition, clock sidetrack you. The joke in my lane now is I’ll move to the end and tell everyone, “I’m working on my technique” and they laugh.
As far as the coaches go, they now do not suggest much to me but I have noticed that their suggestions to the rest of the team resemble technique that TI is demonstrating. It just keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.
Good luck and and stay with it. Again please excuse the long reply.

Todd
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-16-2012
CoachJohnF CoachJohnF is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3
CoachJohnF
Default Keep building SL but add some SR Work

Katy,

One of the equations that we like use to describe speed in the water is V = SL x SR (yes, I know there was supposed to be no math...). In other words, your speed (V) is the product of your stroke length (how far you go per stroke) and your stroke rate (how many stroke cycles you take in a given time).

What we teach our swimmers is to first develop a strong SL variable by doing drills, reducing drag, active streamlining, holding onto water with forearms and feet, etc. This high SL feel feeds the "happiness" factor that Terry describes. It simply feels good not to be fighting the water. As a Masters coach, I've found that swimmers that start from a point of big stroke length have a might brighter future of time drops because they are training a good stroke.

What Suzanne says is true, you might need to push your stroke rate or tempo up a bit higher. Here's how you can play with it: (1) have a friend time 10 strokes of swimming with a stop watch (2-3 times if you are big into averages) and divide by 10, and (2) plug that number into a Tempo Trainer as your "as is" stroke rate. Start to tweak the stroke rate down and see how that affects your golf score (strokes + time). If you aren't getting a good bang for the buck, back off. Keep working at the quicker tempos until it becomes as effortless to do them as with your "as is."

In my view a conventional stroke is a high-turnover, hard work stroke -- thrashing is sometimes what I would describe it as. :-) Something to be aware of: many of these swimmers are swimming at a much higher heart rate/intensity than you are. This comes from growing up and hearing your coaches tell you to swim like hell all the time. Aerobic training is not taxing. If you come up red in the face and breathing hard, you are training anaerobically and, unless you swam D1 college, your stroke is probably breaking down. Many of these swimmers are great at holding 100's on a fast interval but can't hold the pace for 300's and above because no one can go as hard as possible for that long. We don't talk a lot about heart rates, but a lower, more aerobic heart rate (< 180 - Age, if you read Phil Maffetone) is what will build the greatest sense of wellness, energy, and fat burning. Swimming hard will absolutely take you out of that range; it feels like you are working but it doesn't nothing for your health and wellness.

What I've found in my training, is that stroke doesn't necessarily translate into faster times. I often say to people who say that I swim too easy and slow, "If there was a 20 x 100 @ 1:15 race in a Masters meet, I would care about how hard I work intervals. I would rather swim fast in a race." I'm out of shape now, but I still swim pretty fast when I am. In some events, I swim faster now than when I was in high school solely because of better mechanics.

As far as the two-beat kick goes, I don't think that's necessarily an issue unless you are talking about sprints or finishing fast at the end of a long race. In training, I would conserve your legs for sprints and use the two-beat.

I think I'm rambling at this point. Hopefully you get something good out of this post.

Fitz
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-16-2012
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 604
CoachDavidShen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachToddE View Post
Katy,
I completed coach training in the summer of 2010 and returned home and to my masters practices a new swimmer more confident than ever before in my swimming career only to be met by the traditional style masters coaches who immediately started suggesting changes to my new stroke. I politely acknowledged their suggestions and continued to swim the way I knew was better.
i am beginning to think that TI swimmers who swim masters need to also develop the ability to ignore what the coaches say with a smile, no matter how much they yell at you and berate you mentally with "what they know", and then...dust the other swimmers by being faster with less strokes, less thrashing and more ease and comfort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachToddE View Post
What I immediately began to see was that while swimming next to lane mates I was keeping up with them and they were stroking one and a half to two times faster. I continued on incorporating my skill building drills into the drill sets and warm-ups, i.e., instead of kicking with a kick board flat on my stomach I skated left and right side, instead of doing the traditional catch-up I did swingswitches keeping on wide tracks, etc.
this is how to adapt a masters workout to TI.

they tell you to kick with a board, you smile and then just take off doing drills without a board.

they tell you to put on paddles, you smile, and just take off without paddles and swim with focal points.

by the way, i am happy to say that after TI training, i now swim faster than people who use paddles at my masters team. go figure. sometimes I swim faster than other people who have fins on! and i'm not that fast either.

what are they going to do - kick you out of masters? you pay them X dollars a month to be there - what, do they not want your money? LOL
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-16-2012
CoachCeleste CoachCeleste is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1
CoachCeleste
Default slow swimming to get faster

Hi Katy,
I live in NH and have swum in various pools over the years training for tris. I have had many well meaning coaches/swimmers especially in the Laconia area tell me I am swimming to slow, that I need to swim, faster, turn it over. In hindsight, those where the formative years where I was imprinting my stroke. It took time and patience to stay the path, plus many "thanks, but no thanks" to those well meaning coaches/swimmers. You have no idea how happy I am these days having taken the time to apply TI, especially when I pass those well meaning people in the pool or at a race. When I work on speed, or fast swimming w few strokes, my stroke does not "dissolve". Bottom line, stay the course :-)

Cheers,
TI Coach Celeste
TriathlonSkills.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.