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  #201  
Old 08-24-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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andyinnorway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian mac View Post
Andy,
Glad that the set worked so well for you. Always remember that the mindfulness comes from you.

I have had the privilege of training with many great swimmers and coaches for more than 40 years(Yikes!). One of the things I most like to do with my training partners as we work toward a goal, either short term or long term, is to take turns devising workouts for ourselves.

You are one of my favourite bloggers on this site. I appreciate that you are as practical as you are theoretical and i love your passion. So, one more set and then i shall look forward to what workout/practice you set up for yourself:

3 x (300 pull, 1.5 min rest, 3 x 100 @ 2:00 interval) 2 min rest between each set
1. set TT @ 1:30 for the 300
2. set TT @ 1:28 for the 300
3. set TT @ 1:26 for the 300

On all 3 sets, without TT, swim the 3 x 100 easy/medium/strong - record times. Hopefully each 100 will be faster than than the previous one. This is called "descending". Keep SPL throughout @ 17!

On the 300 swims, keeping your SPL @ 17 - record times. Again, hopefully you will "descend"in time on each successive 300.
Happy laps,
ian mac
thanks Ian can you clarify what you mean by pull
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  #202  
Old 08-25-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
thanks Ian can you clarify what you mean by pull
Ian I tried your set yesterday but didn't understand fully my goal for it.

3 x (300 pull, 1.5 min rest, 3 x 100 @ 2:00 interval) 2 min rest between each set
1. set TT @ 1:30 for the 300
2. set TT @ 1:28 for the 300
3. set TT @ 1:26 for the 300

I swam as follows:-
4xSG with 1 underwater stroke.
4x25 to establish 17SPL

300 straight swim 5.36
3 x 100 TT1.30 SPL17. Times as expected 1.43

1 minute extra rest

300 straight swim 5.32
3 x 100 TT1.28 SPL17. Times as expected 1.41 (I dropped a stroke on the 2nd repeat with loss of focus)

300 straight swim 5.19
3x 100 TT 1.26 SPL17. Times as expected 1.39

My arms and shoulders were a little fatigued from a day of painting ceilings. (and a $95 full respray and dent repair of my old car)

I then did 10 minutes of strength work
10x25 off 60s TT 1.08 holding 15SPL

The bit in the set I didn't understand was why I would keep 17SPL at the slower SR (1.3 instead of 1.23) than the day before as this felt a bit laboured. It would have made sense to me if I had had to maintain 16SPL at the slower tempos?

Next swim session I plan to see if I am getting nearer to my 100m PB with some 4321's with 16SPL and TT 1.08 as this will give me a 100m time of 1.21
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  #203  
Old 08-28-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Ian,

Today I wanted to test a theory that the natural improvement in balance and streamline by swimming at a pace of 1.30/100m instead of 1.40/100m requires less extra effort than I might imagine.

I swam your 4321's, trying to go on intervals of 30s per length but Tuesdays in my pool is 36 degrees and lots of people breast stroking in the lane so difficult to swim precise intervals.

Goal - Descend TT (increase SR) whilst holding 17SPL and review effort load.

I swam the 4x25,3x50,2x75,1x100 set 5 times

1. TT 1.23
2. TT 1.20
3. TT 1.17
4. TT 1.14
5. TT 1.11

I held my SPL at 17 throughout and indeed had mostly 16's on the single lengths. interestingly the effort level on sets 1-4 seemed about the same, I did breath harder on set 5 but then this is a 1.27.7 100m time which for me is getting towards full speed.

My intuition is to test this further in a cooler pool with more lane space by trying to swim some 4x4x100m repeats with TT at 1.14 and a strict interval rest to see if I can maintain the faster pace over the course of a 1600m swim.

I would appreciate your experienced view on this. Is my thinking sound? Is there any value in doing some 200m repeats? off say 3.30?

Last edited by andyinnorway : 08-28-2012 at 09:07 PM. Reason: hard to read
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  #204  
Old 08-29-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Mindful practice is the key

Andy,
Great to see how well you are improving. Swimming faster really does require mindfulness, gradual increases in intensity and time to adapt.

To answer a question from an earlier post, pulling is arms only and requires a pull buoy between the legs. This is a controversial tool within TI as it affects natural balance. As a 54 year old sommelier who spend 40 -50 hrs/week in the restaurant on my feet, i do some of my intense swimming as pull sets when i am doing threshold pacing (which is high intensity) because as the lactate increases, my legs will sometime cramp otherwise. Pulling allows me to not worry as much about my largest muscle group(legs) while concentrating on core rotation, stroke rate etc...Just like my hypoxic sets, i won't advocate to others trying this and most importantly WHEN DOING YOUR FASTEST SWIMMING ALWAYS DO IT NATURALLY - NO TOOLS (TT, FINS, SNORKELS OR PULL BUOYS).

Great to see you maintaining SPL of 17 throughout. This is most significant. Yes, doing 4 x 4x 100 with TT @ 1.14 will give you good insight into how you will do at longer distances. Use it as a continuing set over the next several weeks. Play around with it by trying different rest intervals on different practices. Try it also by starting the first 4 on interval of 2:10 and on each successive set of 4 reduce your interval by 5 seconds (2:05/2:00/1:55).

Yes, doing 200's in a similar manner will also help. Terry often does sets of 400's (as do i). Once a month i do a 800 with TT set for race pace and then do a quality set of 8 x 100 on a 2 min interval trying to swim each 100 below race pace.

Keep up the good work, the possibilities are only limited to our imagination.
Enjoy the plateau,
ian mac
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  #205  
Old 09-01-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default A quickie is better than nothing

Some days it is not possible to put in the distance that i would prefer. Yet i find that a quick 1500 metres is better than nothing. Usually my two caveats for these shorter swims are extreme mindfulness and some intensity.

Much has been commented on about what TI is all about in recent other posts. Far be it to put words in Terry's mouth. However since i read his original book , the key to TI for me is about minimizing drag above all else. How we do so is a work in progress for all swimmers. Hence mindfulness. Every stroke of every length is considered in the moment with the intent of always maximizing streamlining and trying to minimize drag.

Yesterday, short course metres: 30 x 50 on 1 min interval:
1. 6 x 50 stroke drills (alternate 25 fly/25 back, then 25breast/25free)
2. 6 x 50 various kick drills
3. 6 x 50 pull with buoy catch up, hold SPL @14
4. 6 x 50 hold times at 35 seconds or less (successfully accomplished)
5. 6 x 50 hold SPL @ 13

Felt invigorated after a quick whirlpool/steam and back to work.
ian mac
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  #206  
Old 09-04-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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andyinnorway
Default Consolidating in the heat

Water too hot to do too much cardio work today but I had had 3 days rest so decided to give the muscles a good train and try to consolidate by results from last week with regards to training my mile time down to 26.40

Tune up 500m
4321 TT1.2 SPL 16, there were more 15's than 16's here so I knew my muscles were fresh.

main set
4x4x100 at 1.40 pace

4x100 TT 1.29 SPL16 off 2 minutes
1 minute extra rest
repeat
4x100 TT 1.23 SPL17 off 2 minutes
1 minutes extra rest
repeat

I did the first half on target and the second half about a stroke ahead most 100's

I then wanted to really work my muscles so tried a 4321 with TT@1.2 and SPL15

I only got to the third 50m before the 16SPL was creeping in so stopped and swam down as it was getting near kicking out time anyway.

An enjoyable swim today anyway.

Next time I will try to reduce my rest interval to 15s
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  #207  
Old 09-06-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Working 14 - 15 SPL

One goal of ours over the next nine months is to wire in 29 strokes/50 metres while bringing our stroke rate down below 1.0 with less and less rest between repeats of varying distances.

Today's practice, short course metres:
1. 200 each swim drills, kick, pull
2. "4321" - keep SPL @ 14 on 30 sec interval per 25 metres
3. 3 x (6 x 100 on 1:45 interval, 1 extra min, rest between sets)
a. 1st set, TT @ 1.04 SPL 14 avg. time 1:20
b. 2nd set TT @ 1.0 SPL 15 avg. time 1:19
c. 3rd set no TT descend: 1:24,1:20,1:19,1:18, 1:16, 1:14 SPL stayed constant between repeats 1-4 @29/50, but as times got faster SPL increased to 30 on 1st 50 and 31 on 2nd 50.

OK set, the 1:45 interval was somewhat challenging and holding the pace of 1:20/1:19 was a good effort. This neural stuff takes time to adapt, we feel we are on right track.
4. 6 x 50 hypoxic start at 8 breaths descend to 3 breaths. 1 min rest then 1 x 50 1 breath or less swim 35 sec or less

ian mac
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  #208  
Old 09-10-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Solid pacing practice

After a couple of easier days of drills, turn practice, water resistance training, vertical kicking and so forth, Michael came up with a rigorous set to test our current fitness level and pacing skills. Short course metres:

1. 300 each swim/kick/pull
2. 8 x 50 butterfly kick @1:15 - concentrate on small undulations starting at top of rib cage.

3. 2 x (4x50) @ 50 sec interval/ 2 x (4 x 50) @ 45 sec interval/ 2 x (4 x 50) @ 40 sec interval - try to maintain SPL of 15 1 extra min rest between each set of 4 x 50
-this was done naturally (no TT) and we started the first two sets averaging 38 seconds, strong but not yet taxing. The second two sets we averaged 35/36 seconds and it required a full effort. Michael then suggested that we back off the effort slightly and attempt a "touch look and go" sequence at the end of each 50 - more like a fast broken 200. This strategy paid off as we were getting 3 comfortable seconds rest at the end of each 50 and swimming within ourselves rather than swimming into acidosis. We maintained 15 SPL throughout and our times made us feel confident for early season conditioning.

4. 300 pull with bands and pull buoy, hold SPL of 13/14, long stretch
5. 6 x 50 hypoxic to 3 breaths/50 @1min interval
6. 1 x 50 maximum 1 breath 35 or better

I think Terry would call our main set "ninja" pacing
ian mac
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  #209  
Old 10-12-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default What is a TI swim? Anything can be!

Recently in several other thread, I have seen comments of frustrated swimmers pondering reverting to their former strokes in order to swim faster, or doing "traditional swimming or sets". This has me confused. I am a competitive swimmer who often practices with a "traditional" club. While workouts that I make up for myself are somewhat different than what our master's coach provides (see other posts in this thread), I would like to suggest that a TI oriented swimmer can take any "traditional" practice and give it a TI spin.

Tuesday's early morning swim was 1 hour& 15 minutes in duration.
The coach gave us the following to try and finish in that time:
short course metres:
1. 400 each swim, kick, pull
2. 3 x [ 10 x 100m ] 1st set on 1:30 interval, 2nd set on 1:35, 3rd set on 1:40, try and descend average time on each set

During the warm up, I concentrated on a variety of Individual medley stroke drills working both the long and short axis for maximum body stretching, alternated butterfly and backstroke lengths with fins for the kicking component, thinking about small undulations starting at the rid cage for fly and concentrating on my head position and posture during backstroke for best streamlining. During the 400 metres of pull, I thought about wide tracks and catch during 75 metres of freestyle and then performed a sculling exercise that I learned from Charles Couturier. This I repeated 4 times.

For the main set my 56 year old training partner Michael and I agreed on several ideas before we started. As this was a fairly formidable aerobic oriented set we would concentrate on maintaining a SPL of 15/16 per length for all 30 x 100. We would try to keep an average time of 1:23 for the 1st ten, 1:21 for the next ten and see what we could achieve on the last ten when we got there. As swimmers who have trained together for many years, we understood that our final ten would be faster, but as this is early season, an average of 1:20 or 1:19 would be fine.

The results were about what we expected with averages of 1:23/1:21 and 1:19. Occasionally we hit 16 SPL but mostly we maintained 15SPL. To me, what makes this a TI practice is that on every length I had a purpose regarding thinking about factors of streamlining, propulsion optimum turns and distance under water. As well there were many constant neural progressions and awareness of stroke rate in order to get slightly faster with each successive set of ten 100's.

To me, TI is more about the mindset of making each length purposeful. Yes, I do drills but certainly not exclusively. Much of my training would would be understood by "conventional" swimmers ignorant of Total Immersion. However, long ago Terry Laughlin got me to see the light and evry length I try to make purposeful. Thus every swim can be considered a TI swim.
ian mac

Last edited by ian mac : 10-12-2012 at 04:59 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #210  
Old 10-14-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Fitness training can be TI swimming

Charles,
I don't want to turn this thread away from it's purpose, although I would love to start discussing how critical swim speed training could be useful in 800 and 1500metre training from another thread.
Currently I am trying to break 9:40 and 19:00 respectively to do well in the 55-59 age group and can use all the help I can get. Knowing what speeds to swim at can be very important, and I would appreciate feedback in that regard.

Since Terry has referenced both Sun Yang and Jason Lezak in TI discussions, I am not sure if there is a definitive TI stroke. I have seen video of you swimming and will get one of my daughters to film me at different stroke rates to see if your assertion is correct. Apparently there is something called YouTube so that I can share with others (who knew?).

Although i can swim 25 metres in 11 strokes, there is way more glide than when I am swimming a set of 50's trying to hold 36 seconds - at that point my SPL is about 15 and SR significantly faster. I would be curious to see video of Shinji swimming his fastest possible and how it changes from his famous video. You and I could probably swim 5,000 metres and hold an easy pace of 1:25/100 and make it look quite easy and very TI. Once that task has been mastered, as we try to train for faster things, I believe that it can still be done in a TI framework. As more fast swimmers adopt TI philosophy, I believe that TI will incorporate more ideas and adapt - especially with different kick patterns and time spent gliding.
ian mac
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