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  #191  
Old 08-17-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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ian mac
Default Hypoxic training

Grant,
Ya we've done the reading on hypoxic training. We discussed this yesterday in fact. For us it does 2 things - psychologically it makes us feel tougher mentally which is important for distance swimmers. Secondly it helps ud with our turns as we both stay streamlined underwater for significant periods compared to most masters. As we get into both better aerobic and anaerobic shape, it is a great adaptive tool.
As a caveat, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner. No pun, it is not a set for the faint hearted.
Great question.
ian mac
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  #192  
Old 08-17-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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Location: Sooke, BC. Canada
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Grant
Default

Ian
Thanks for the reply. It brings up an issue I have been playing with in the pool lately. In the past I have been taking five dolphin kicks off the wall on the turns. This brings me to the surface at the 9 to 10 meter mark, with a stroke count of 16/17. Recently I have been surfacing at the five meter mark with only 3 quicker dolphin kicks. This results in 18/19 strokes per length and faster times. Have just been doing the 4,3,2,1 sets so have not gone any longer. Have worked down to 1.1 on the tempo trainer. I think when I get down to 1.0 on the TT I will practice longer swims.
This morning I did your 8 by 100 one arm fly, free easy, dolphin kick and the last 25 at 100m pace full fly. Enjoyed it as it gave me some new variety. I took about 15 sec rest between 100's. Am thinking when I do it next I may change it to dolphin kick, one arm fly, dolphin kick and fly stroke. This would keep each length in short axis stroke mode and further reinforce the rythum of the Butterfly.
Thanks again.
__________________
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
Grant
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  #193  
Old 08-21-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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andyinnorway
Default

Still in Search on 1meter/second over a mile I have been doing some strength sets as follows:-

4x100m 17SPL SR 1.26 time 1.40, repeat on 2.00, 30 seconds rest after 400m
2x200m as above time 3.20, repeat on 4.00, 1 minute rest before

repeat everything for 1600m swim.

I feel now this is a comfortable swim, requires effort but i'm not red lining.

So to increase the effort and get nearer my goal of a 26.40 mile, would it be smarter to keep the swim speed the same and reduce the rests, or take my swim speed down to 1.35 and hold the rests at 20 seconds per 100m? or swim both sets?.
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  #194  
Old 08-22-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rio, Wisconsin
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westyswoods
Default No advice, just a question

Andy,

Can't offer any advice as I am no where close to those levels. My question is what are you counting for turns with this? I have it figured at three, is this correct?

Good luck on your venture.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #195  
Old 08-22-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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andyinnorway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westyswoods View Post
Andy,

Can't offer any advice as I am no where close to those levels. My question is what are you counting for turns with this? I have it figured at three, is this correct?

Good luck on your venture.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
Hi Westy, yes I've found 3 to be my most efficient for open turning.

1 for the turn, 1 for the wall and 1 for the underwater stroke.

I find taking an extra one for the push off doesn't effect distance as much as momentum and focus.
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  #196  
Old 08-22-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 194
ian mac
Default Enjoy the plateau and ninja pacing

Andy,
Great to see the improvements. In his incredible book "Mastery", akido master George Leonard describes how most endeavours are on an even level, the plateau, and every so often we have a breakthrough to a new level. After the breakthrough, we are again on a plateau.

The key is to enjoy the plateau. My suggestion apropos of your posts below is to continue for a while doing variations of both short and long sets varying SR and rest, but ALWAYS maintain the SPL of 17. If you look at many of my previous posts in this thread, you can see a variety of different sets to try and just vary the SR and rest to suit your needs. As you become even more comfortable, try final sets WITHOUT the TT. This is extremely important in order to develop what Terry refers to as "ninja" pacing. You need to be able to repeat a set with the same times at the same SPL on your internal clock.

eg. 3 x ( 6 x 50m) , extra min. rest between each set:
1. SPL of 17/ TT @ 1.26 on 1 min interval - record times
2. duplicate SPL of 17, TT @1.26 on 55sec. interval - record times
3. same SPL of 17, 1min interval, no TT - try to get your times the same as the 1st 2 sets
i will look forward to your results,
ian mac
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  #197  
Old 08-23-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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ian mac
Default Good aerobic conditioning and "fun with fly"

Today we worked on several early season sets to mix things up.

1. 400/300/200/100 warmup free, swim last 100 IM about 20-30 sec rest after each one

2. 5 x (3 x 100) no TT, maintain SPL of 15 descend interval. start @2:00/1:50/1:40 take 1 min xtra rest, then last 2 sets on intervals 1:30 and 1:25
AVG time per set: 1. 1:21/ 2. 1:19/ 3. 1:17/ 4. 1:16/ 5. 1:15 (Michael was about 1 sec faster per set). At the start of the set we decided to be flexible regards the final set interval and choose either 1:25 or 1:20. Since it is still very early in the season, we opted for quality.

3. 6 x 50 fly 2/2/2 (2 rt arm, 2 lft arm, 2 full stroke) on 1:15 interval - concentrate on small amplitude and balance

4. 6 x 50 free hypoxic 1 min. interval
Michael was so pleased with this workout that he added it to our "best workout" file

ian mac
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  #198  
Old 08-23-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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CharlesCouturier
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian mac View Post
The key is to enjoy the plateau.
In total agreement here.
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  #199  
Old 08-23-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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andyinnorway
Default Next set Please :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian mac View Post
Andy,
Great to see the improvements. In his incredible book "Mastery", akido master George Leonard describes how most endeavours are on an even level, the plateau, and every so often we have a breakthrough to a new level. After the breakthrough, we are again on a plateau.

The key is to enjoy the plateau. My suggestion apropos of your posts below is to continue for a while doing variations of both short and long sets varying SR and rest, but ALWAYS maintain the SPL of 17. If you look at many of my previous posts in this thread, you can see a variety of different sets to try and just vary the SR and rest to suit your needs. As you become even more comfortable, try final sets WITHOUT the TT. This is extremely important in order to develop what Terry refers to as "ninja" pacing. You need to be able to repeat a set with the same times at the same SPL on your internal clock.

eg. 3 x ( 6 x 50m) , extra min. rest between each set:
1. SPL of 17/ TT @ 1.26 on 1 min interval - record times
2. duplicate SPL of 17, TT @1.26 on 55sec. interval - record times
3. same SPL of 17, 1min interval, no TT - try to get your times the same as the 1st 2 sets
i will look forward to your results,
ian mac
Ian, Brilliantly chosen set. It was perfectly in the range of something I new I could complete if I stayed focused mentally and physically.

I decided to put my TT on 1.23 but allow myself an extra 1/3 beep on the push off as this gives me exact length times of 25.00

I did as follows:-

6x50 with TT@1.23 SPL17 interval time 60s - completed exactly

30 seconds extra rest

6x50 with TT@1.23 SPL17 interval time 55s - completed exactly
but had to put in some big strokes on 16 and 17 to make SPL a couple of times. Was surprised how short a 5s rest is but then also surprised to see it made a difference.

60 seconds extra rest

6x50 no TT aim for time of 50s SPL17 and interval time 60s - completed exactly
I was about a second faster on some repeats than with the TT, probably made the time up on stroke 17 and turn time of first 25m.

I then repeated everything and the results were identical, I hit the maths precisely but again needed a few big strokes to hold SPL17 on the 55s repeats.

SO THANKS FOR THAT ONE, PLEASE RECOMMEND ME THE NEXT ONE IN THE SERIES AS I WORK TOWARDS MY 26.40mile GOAL.

I read the Mastery book last year and loved it. I think I will dig it out soon for a second pass. (I have been inspired by a comment made by the guy asking us to vote for him following the car accident on his bike.....that is to see all training as a chance to celebrate good health)

I have also started triathlon training in the last two weeks as there are 7 of us from Sheffield University class of 1995 competing for bragging rights in Windsor triathlon next year which is olympic distance. I think the running and bike training are already helping my pool stamina.
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  #200  
Old 08-24-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 194
ian mac
Default The great thing about practice is challenge

Andy,
Glad that the set worked so well for you. Always remember that the mindfulness comes from you.

I have had the privilege of training with many great swimmers and coaches for more than 40 years(Yikes!). One of the things I most like to do with my training partners as we work toward a goal, either short term or long term, is to take turns devising workouts for ourselves.

You are one of my favourite bloggers on this site. I appreciate that you are as practical as you are theoretical and i love your passion. So, one more set and then i shall look forward to what workout/practice you set up for yourself:

3 x (300 pull, 1.5 min rest, 3 x 100 @ 2:00 interval) 2 min rest between each set
1. set TT @ 1:30 for the 300
2. set TT @ 1:28 for the 300
3. set TT @ 1:26 for the 300

On all 3 sets, without TT, swim the 3 x 100 easy/medium/strong - record times. Hopefully each 100 will be faster than than the previous one. This is called "descending". Keep SPL throughout @ 17!

On the 300 swims, keeping your SPL @ 17 - record times. Again, hopefully you will "descend"in time on each successive 300.
Happy laps,
ian mac
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