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  #1  
Old 01-29-2017
efdoucette efdoucette is offline
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Default Incremental improvements

I am in my 7th year of self taught TI style front crawl. It's been a long and rewarding process. I have realised over time that it's the little focuses that result in improvements.

I recently read a coach's input that the palm should face upward as the hand finishes the stroke and begins recovery. I focused on this little tip and the results were surprising. By palm facing up the elbow points outward, leading to more easily swinging the elbow during recovery, a higher elbow recovery and probably an assist to maintaining wide tracks on entry. This is how it all felt to me anyway. Small focus ... big gain.
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2017
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Hi efdoucette,

The "palm up" at exit is a gem. It sets up the recovery to pop out of the surface with its own momentum, and turns off the shoulder to keep the entire arm movement fluid and not lift elbow from shoulder.

The little things, once understood - can have huge impacts.

Good work!

Stuart
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Old 01-30-2017
larissaboyer
 
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A continual improvement process, also often called a continuous improvement process, is an ongoing effort to improve products, services, or processes. These efforts can seek "incremental" improvement over time or "breakthrough" improvement all at once. Delivery processes are constantly evaluated and improved in the light of their efficiency, effectiveness and flexibility.
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Old 02-03-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efdoucette View Post
I am in my 7th year of self taught TI style front crawl. It's been a long and rewarding process. I have realised over time that it's the little focuses that result in improvements.

I recently read a coach's input that the palm should face upward as the hand finishes the stroke and begins recovery. I focused on this little tip and the results were surprising. By palm facing up the elbow points outward, leading to more easily swinging the elbow during recovery, a higher elbow recovery and probably an assist to maintaining wide tracks on entry. This is how it all felt to me anyway. Small focus ... big gain.
4th year TI swimmer here, still slowly improving, I hope. As you say, it's surprising how much improvement is noticed, because the gain is usually so slow, except for the occasional breakthrough such as this one. Out of curiosity, what erroneous orientation was your palm falling into as it exited the water after the stroke (before you corrected it)? What degree of angular error were you exhibiting before you corrected?
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2017
efdoucette efdoucette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
4th year TI swimmer here, still slowly improving, I hope. As you say, it's surprising how much improvement is noticed, because the gain is usually so slow, except for the occasional breakthrough such as this one. Out of curiosity, what erroneous orientation was your palm falling into as it exited the water after the stroke (before you corrected it)? What degree of angular error were you exhibiting before you corrected?
Yes, good question, I turned off that palm up focus the other day to see how my hand was oriented the old way, just to compare. So, for reference, if palm up is 180 degrees then my old hand position was somewhere between 90 and 180 and I think closer to 90 facing my thigh. I can't say for sure as my focus has always been at the front of the stroke, never paid much attention to the back end. With the old position the elbow is pointed toward the ceiling, with palm up the elbow faces the side of the pool. This position (to me) allows for an easier shoulder and elbow driven exit, it helps maintain a wide recovery and wide tracks for entry. Probably assists balance too. Again, it's just me in the pool, no coach or observer, so I'm only basing my observation on what I feel. I like it and will incorporate it into my ever growing list of focus points.

Eric
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efdoucette View Post
Yes, good question, I turned off that palm up focus the other day to see how my hand was oriented the old way, just to compare. So, for reference, if palm up is 180 degrees then my old hand position was somewhere between 90 and 180 and I think closer to 90 facing my thigh. I can't say for sure as my focus has always been at the front of the stroke, never paid much attention to the back end. With the old position the elbow is pointed toward the ceiling, with palm up the elbow faces the side of the pool. This position (to me) allows for an easier shoulder and elbow driven exit, it helps maintain a wide recovery and wide tracks for entry. Probably assists balance too. Again, it's just me in the pool, no coach or observer, so I'm only basing my observation on what I feel. I like it and will incorporate it into my ever growing list of focus points.

Eric
Got it. I used to do the same (palm towards the thigh), then for a while trying to get a better angle, over corrected a bit, and I think got the palm facing outward a bit, i.e. a little more than 180 degrees. Then I found the 180 degree rule, and managed to get consistent on it for a while. Then, somewhere a long the line I got focused on not lingering with my hand by the hip but rather doing a snappy initiation of recovery, and the 180 degree rule got forgotten. But no reason why I can't remember this again and do both the 180 and the snappy recovery.
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Old 02-04-2017
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello,

got confused a little bit, so let me ask:

Eric's 0° is palm to pool's bottom, 180° palm directed to pool's ceiling, axis for measurement wrist?

But I think this movement's axis is rectangular to axis, when your palm shows to thigh while exiting the surface. Here the axis will be the lower arm.

Both axis are "independent" from each other (somewhat tensed you can even let your fingers show to thigh together with Eric's 180°), so if you don't point palm to thigh you're not automatically in Eric's 180°-flick, isn't it.

Think Palm showing to thigh is the first moment, the startpoint to tense your elbow behind your scapular plane. Would always suggest, never to do so.

Best regards,
Werner

PS: For beginners I think Terry's hint: Let your palm always show to pool's backside isn't the worst...
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2017
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Nathan Adrian's palms, not bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SONx5...e_gdata_player

Salvo
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello,

got confused a little bit, so let me ask:

Eric's 0° is palm to pool's bottom, 180° palm directed to pool's ceiling, axis for measurement wrist?

But I think this movement's axis is rectangular to axis, when your palm shows to thigh while exiting the surface. Here the axis will be the lower arm.

Both axis are "independent" from each other (somewhat tensed you can even let your fingers show to thigh together with Eric's 180°), so if you don't point palm to thigh you're not automatically in Eric's 180°-flick, isn't it.

Think Palm showing to thigh is the first moment, the startpoint to tense your elbow behind your scapular plane. Would always suggest, never to do so.

Best regards,
Werner

PS: For beginners I think Terry's hint: Let your palm always show to pool's backside isn't the worst...
Coach Werner,

There is perception and reality. The "palm up" focus helps allow a full extension of the recovery with a natural release of the arm (wide) with its own momentum. This helps break the human instinct lifting the elbow early with palm facing hip. We are human after all, when we walk or run, we don't extend our arms straight with palms facing back. Changing that movement pattern in the water in the water is a challenge.

I have even used extreme perceptions as "thumb up" at exit to stop the early elbow lift from shoulder. Perception-wise the swimmer feels arm is torqued, thumb pointing to ceiling; reality is the palm is just beginning to face up away from the hip, recovery arm extends with a natural wide release.

Btw: The "palm up" gem came from Coach Dave Cameron via Coach John Beaty. Good stuff!

Salvo,

Yes! Nathan Adrian has an excellent release with palm facing up, and incredible timing.

Stuart

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 02-04-2017 at 08:42 PM. Reason: Added Coach Beaty for "palm up"
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  #10  
Old 02-04-2017
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Did someone say palms up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdaP6DdrQIw
Learn some skulling and the hand will find the optimal path probably.

I find palms facing back the most simple and logical mental image.
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