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  #11  
Old 01-20-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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Good luck!
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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@Danny: Is Shinji actually a little low in the water as I thought in comment #9? Or is it just my imagination?
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
@Danny: Is Shinji actually a little low in the water as I thought in comment #9? Or is it just my imagination?
If you look at his hips or legs they are right up on the surface in a way most of us can only envy. Maybe the impression that he is low in the water comes from the fact that he is leaning on his lungs. This is why his head is so far below the surface, even though it is aligned with his spine. That's my take on it anyway.
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
If you look at his hips or legs they are right up on the surface in a way most of us can only envy. Maybe the impression that he is low in the water comes from the fact that he is leaning on his lungs. This is why his head is so far below the surface, even though it is aligned with his spine. That's my take on it anyway.
Yeah, that's what I meant, is his head sort of low in the water? I guess you see that it is, like I do. Given that fact, his breathing technique really is pretty skilful.
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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I guess we're getting back to the point of this thread. I think this is true, not only of Shinji, but also of Terry, when you see underwater shots of either of them breathing. Their head is low in the water and to get their mouth up to breath they seem to have to rotate the head quite a bit. This seems like the parlor trick in their breathing technique. All I was observing was that this degree of head rotation becomes easier if your head is aligned with your spine. On the other hand, I don't claim that any of this is easy or that I "can swim like Shinji". When you look at some of the elites breathing while loping, they seem to spare themselves this degree of rotation. Maybe that is one of the points of the loping.

Just looked on YouTube to get another point of view. Here is a link to Bob Bowman and Michael Phelps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB4fJxMWX3U
Bowman's description is interesting but I'm not sure it coincides with the picture of Phelps breathing

Seems like Phelps has a lope to breath, not like Shinji.
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Last edited by Danny : 01-22-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Its difficult to keep track what all the bodyparts are doing when you rotate the head.
There is a strong tendency of the body to follow the head, so turning the head to uncomfortable levels tends to lead to overrotation, so the body and head stay more or less in line.
Another natural tendency to suppress when swimming....
Swimming, the sport of suppression ;-\
After enough repetition suppression becomes natural.

I mostly refuse to turn my head more than sideways. It usually results in a full bladder after a reduced effort swim in a crowded pool.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-22-2015 at 05:00 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2015
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post

Just looked on YouTube to get another point of view. Here is a link to Bob Bowman and Michael Phelps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB4fJxMWX3U
Bowman's description is interesting but I'm not sure it coincides with the picture of Phelps breathing

Seems like Phelps has a lope to breath, not like Shinji.
Most of what Bowman commented on Phelps doesn't really fit the reality; something that never fails to puzzle me. Things get much worst at fly though, where Bowman sometimes describes and focus on the opposite of what Phelps does.
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  #18  
Old 01-22-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Its difficult to keep track what all the bodyparts are doing when you rotate the head.
There is a strong tendency of the body to follow the head, so turning the head to uncomfortable levels tends to lead to overrotation, so the body and head stay more or less in line.
Another natural tendency to suppress when swimming....
Swimming, the sport of suppression ;-\
After enough repetition suppression becomes natural.

I mostly refuse to turn my head more than sideways. It usually results in a full bladder after a reduced effort swim in a crowded pool.
I guess I'm perverse in this regard, but I try the same exercise (turning your head) when I'm jogging. The Chi running book emphasizes running with straight spinal alignment, and I find a good test of my posture while running is when I can look to the side without swerving off the road. Seems like the straigher your neck and spine are, the easier it is to run (or swim) in one direction while looking the other way. Is any of this really useful? Well, good posture is useful...

I would welcome some input from TI coaches on this issue :o) What are the secrets to breathing like Shinji and what are the pros and cons of doing it Shinji's way as opposed to Phelps' way?
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2015
sinker sinker is offline
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I have often heard that all strokes should be uniform---however I have noticed that many if not most excellent TI swimmers and even coaches alter their breathing strokes. Terry often even goes to stacked shoulders on breathing strokes.
See 3:21 of this video---tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4
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  #20  
Old 01-22-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinker View Post
I have often heard that all strokes should be uniform---however I have noticed that many if not most excellent TI swimmers and even coaches alter their breathing strokes. Terry often even goes to stacked shoulders on breathing strokes.
See 3:21 of this video---tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4
Speaking as a beginner with very little direct technical knowledge to sort out disputes between different experts, it seems to me the Terry who has some masters distance swim records to his credit may have a point that paring down every little bit of extraneous wasted energy may pay off in the very long run (or swim as is actually the case.) Therefore, what Phelps may get away with at 400m, 800m may handicap him at 1600, 10k, 20k etc.

So the relative stacking of the shoulders on the breathing stroke in your video may make relative sense in the mix of compromises that he is making.

Relative to this point, Danny's observation about Terry's (and Shinji's) "parlour trick" of being able to rotate to air smoothly despite starting from a low head position in the water (without bobbing the upper body) would seem like a valuable skill to try and emulate.
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