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  #1  
Old 11-05-2013
pinguin pinguin is offline
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pinguin
Default Freestyle catch vs. backstroke catch

When I swim backstroke I can feel the water, grab it, push myself forward with hand and forearm. I guess this is often mentioned as "holding the water".

When swimming freestyle my feeling in hand and forearm is much slippier/softer and I can't feel the water the way I do it in backstroke.
Is this usual? The water seems to be 'thicker' when I swim backstroke :-)

I watched several TI-videos lately (e.g. coach anna-karin lundin, playitas, fuerteventura - I could watch it forever, soooo elegant) and I see that the TI-freestylers also have that forward-motion which I have in backstroke but not in freestyle.

What is your experience?
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2013
sinker sinker is offline
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Pinquin
I also noticed this phenomenon earlier this year. I posted about it last May 20 with a post entitled "get a grip", should you want to look it up.
It just seems to happen so naturally with backstroke, doesn't it.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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http://www.totalimmersion.net/blog/c...g-silky-magic/
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #4  
Old 11-05-2013
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Reminiscent of the ol' SKATCH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZXX9XHx0mM
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2013
pinguin pinguin is offline
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Yesterday evening I visualized this elbow-movement to the SIDE ... what can I say: THIS IS IT!!!
Of course it is not yet fully working in every single stroke - but finally I could f e e l the water, get a good grip of it and felt much more at ease with every stroke. Oh how wonderful it is!

Funny thing is ... I knew that I already had this 'trick' about two years ago. But then I was motivated to change my swimming-style, away from TI-style to a more power-oriented 'typical-swimmer'-style. And sure enough, that feeling was gone :-( Instead of gliding 'effortless' through the water I worked harder and harder (also developed nice muscles) - but the times on longer distances were never as fast as back in these old TI-days.

I hardly can wait to get back to the pool to imprint this new/old elbow-move :-)
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguin View Post
Yesterday evening I visualized this elbow-movement to the SIDE ... what can I say: THIS IS IT!!!
Of course it is not yet fully working in every single stroke - but finally I could f e e l the water, get a good grip of it and felt much more at ease with every stroke. Oh how wonderful it is!

Funny thing is ... I knew that I already had this 'trick' about two years ago. But then I was motivated to change my swimming-style, away from TI-style to a more power-oriented 'typical-swimmer'-style. And sure enough, that feeling was gone :-( Instead of gliding 'effortless' through the water I worked harder and harder (also developed nice muscles) - but the times on longer distances were never as fast as back in these old TI-days.

I hardly can wait to get back to the pool to imprint this new/old elbow-move :-)
Exciting.

I just spoke with a TI Fan who has done masters with me that just read a Popular "anti TI" book about the catch and claims to have some "speed secrets".

Well his lats & delts were "on fire" after 6 x 100 after reading this book. Then I showed him several videos of elite swimmers...not een TI swimmers, performing a good catch and his interpretation of the book...was spot on...but completely inappropriate for him.

A good catch should not hurt nor feel like your muscles are on fire, and you should continue to feel that forward gliding motion even during the catch. The catch should feel grippy, and it all flows together deliciously like melted chocolate.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #7  
Old 11-06-2013
ananthaditya ananthaditya is offline
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Hey, CoachSuzanne,

Would you happen to have any videos that I can use to compare between a catch that isn't effective and one that has the 'silky magic' you describe?

If anyone can post a video reference to the same, I'm sure it would help me understand what you're talking about better.
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योऽपामायतनं वेद आयतनवान् भवति।
yo'pām āyatanam veda āyatanavān bhavati.
'He who knows the seat of water,
Becomes established in himself.'

Ananth Aditya
Freelance writer, editor,
and aspiring novelist.
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2013
pinguin pinguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthaditya View Post
Hey, CoachSuzanne,

Would you happen to have any videos that I can use to compare between a catch that isn't effective and one that has the 'silky magic' you describe?

If anyone can post a video reference to the same, I'm sure it would help me understand what you're talking about better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeHQyqI7zq0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMF24_H_6vQ
have a look ... those were the videos which I watched and which made me happy :-)
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2013
ananthaditya ananthaditya is offline
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pinguin,

Thanks for posting those videos. They sure made me happy, too. I'd watched the beautiful Anna-Karin Lundin video before, but what made me really happy was Coach Suzanne's excellent footage and analysis of the person's stroke. Sometimes the lack of access to direct training is kinda disheartening, and watching the before and after parts of the video, I knew that could well have been me.

I guess there's also something to be said for the process of self-discovery because when you do get things right after a lot of trying, you usually don't forget. Great video, and very pertinent to the feeling of silky magic. Now I wanna go and get myself a bar of Cadburys Silk :)
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योऽपामायतनं वेद आयतनवान् भवति।
yo'pām āyatanam veda āyatanavān bhavati.
'He who knows the seat of water,
Becomes established in himself.'

Ananth Aditya
Freelance writer, editor,
and aspiring novelist.

Last edited by ananthaditya : 11-07-2013 at 05:48 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2013
Danny Danny is offline
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I too would like to offer high praise for Suzanne's video. I think that I also suffer from over-pulling with my lats, so that I get ahead of my forearm. This video made a big impression on me, and I can't wait to get back in the pool to try some of these corrections.
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