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  #21  
Old 07-01-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
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Default Spearing Hand Entry First Before Hip Rotation

Issue of Spearing Hand Entry Occuring before Hip Rotation

a. The key to ensuring that the hip drives the spearing hand - is the foot drive or the toe flick - as some would call the footwork - in the two-beat kick to be done diagonally or resulting in what others call as a cross-kick. The kick should not be done vertically. It seems the effect of the kick when done in this diagonal position facilitates the hip-drive which will trigger a resulting clearing of the shoulder above the water (which may not occur when the kick is done vertically) before the spearing hand/arm enters the water.

b. for instance, once you do the toe flick with your left foot (in the diagonal position), this triggers the hip drive, the clearing of the right shoulder, and spearing of the right hand/arm.

c. And these (item a & b above) ensure that you do the spearing hand subsequently - meaning after doing the hip-drive/shoulder clearing phase, only will the hand spear the water.

Sorry if I am repetitive....

The issue of the footwork in the 2-beat kick, I think, is similarly resolved by doing the above....remember, though:

o do the kick - the toe flick - in the diagonal position (this is key),
o the left foot kicks, the right hand/arm spears
o clear the right shoulder before you spear (this is important)

End.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
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Default Comments of INDYSJL

On this 2nd or 3rd reading, going down the comments again, and again...I believe you got it...

The characteristics you cited of that "feeling"...are similar to mine...that boost of power, that glide where the two feet are just hanging there relaxed, seeimingly weightless...

Aaaaaah....it is so addictive...that feeling...
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2009
freshegg freshegg is offline
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Can you clarify two things about what you have suggested? Because I think I am "seeing the light" now, after having read your postings, but I want to make sure I'm not just confusing myself.

First, what do you mean by kicking on the diagonal? Do you mean, if you are kicking with the left foot, you don't kick actually down to the floor of the pool, but rather sort of twisted a bit to the right? I read somewhere else that your toes should almost be pigeon-toed inward, is that all part of it, too? And is that what starts the whole corkscrew effect? Because this whole hip-propulsion thing is what causes me more confusion than anything. I have always felt that when I drive with the hip, it's driving down instead of forward. If I'm interpreting your "diagnoal kick" correctly, that makes the whole rotation after-effect much more logical.

Secondly, I had always thought that the initiation of the kick coincided with the hand entry (or spearing) into the water. So are you really saying that you kick first, and THEN spear the hand? For some reason I can't imagine myself timing things like that. Thanks
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
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Default Clarificatory Questions from Freshegg

1. Diagonal Kick/Cross-Kick & Toe-Pigeoned. You are right - not towards the bottom of the pool - but as you swing/rotate to the left or right and is in that "angled" position, that you do your 2-beat cross kick (with your driving foot).

Although, based on my July 4 & 5 sessions, I have noted that when I increase speed even just slightly, I tend to kick towards the bottom...(so guys out there, could you provide inputs from your sessions about this...thanks).

The pigeon-toed position that one of the TI practitioners mentioned is something that I need clarification with...Is this the same as the "toe flick" that another practitioner cited? Sorry, can't help you on this Freshegg...

2. Foot drive before Spearing Hand Entry. My observation of my stroke is that the two maybe almost simultaneous...which is true for my right-foot drive/left hand entry. But my right hand entry seems to be driven or is the result of my left foot driver - meaning the kick definitely drives or initiates the spear (maybe because am a right-side breather). Once I get the hang for bilateral breathing, I will find out if maybe there is something wrong with my stroke. So this may not really be something you should be concerned about.

But hand spearing first before the foot drive...that is something you have to look into...because the power provided by the foot drive is the energy that initiates your turning to do the hand spearing.

I believe that we may have to consider that "...different strokes, for different folks..." maybe at work here and in the final analysis you will have to judge the "correctness" of your strokes by:

o that "feel" of power you generate,
o that ease, the glide, the drafting that you produce/experience
o that level of "satisfaction" that you feel after all is said and done
o the level of energy you "save" or still in your storeroom, after each session
o the low-level noise you produce
o the improvement in your metrics (e.g., SPL, SR, etc.)

And not necessarily by how other people tell you it should be...

One thing I have noted lately when I made the breakthrough...swimming is just not the same anymore...I've become and addict.

Is there a support group I should join for this kind of addiction?

YES, TI!
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayesr View Post
The pigeon-toed position that one of the TI practitioners mentioned is something that I need clarification with...Is this the same as the "toe flick" that another practitioner cited?
No, it's when the toes point toward each other. If you are seated with your feet flat on the floor, your heels would be apart slightly while your toes are touching. You can see it in this dolphin kicking video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upj1pGneRXk
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2009
elskbrev elskbrev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuumai View Post
Watch how Lindsay Benko does it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKfALaEh43c
shuumai, Is there somewhere else we can find this Benko video? Youtube took it off due to a copyright claim. Thanks, Cindy
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  #27  
Old 07-06-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elskbrev View Post
shuumai, Is there somewhere else we can find this Benko video? Youtube took it off due to a copyright claim. Thanks, Cindy
Watch here starting at about 10 minutes into the video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7n...-crole-1_sport

Last edited by shuumai : 07-06-2009 at 01:43 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-06-2009
elskbrev elskbrev is offline
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Default Benko video

Thanks Shuumai. You're the best. Cindy
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  #29  
Old 07-06-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
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Default Shuumai's Pigeon-Toes

Is the pigeon-toes position applicable only to the DK?

Is the pigeon-toes a requirement for the efficacy of the toe-flick?

Sorry guys, can't access your videos.

End.
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayesr View Post
I
Is the pigeon-toes a requirement for the efficacy of the toe-flick?
Describing the kick as a "toe-flick" is a way to encourage a more minimal kick, I believe. A kick that is more connected with body movement. I don't think it has anything to do with pigeon toeing or not pigeon toeing.
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