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  #11  
Old 11-10-2012
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hi Andy,

please excuse for my additional question in your thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
...

Then in Windsor, Mat gave some focal points on the final day (you were on your way to the airport) and pointed out that when he formed the right catch shape , he felt resistance on the front of his hand and forearm which felt "wrong", yet it resulted in 1 less stroke per length at the same effort level...counter-intuitively improving his DPS.
CoachSuzanne, how to get rid of that "wrong" feeling? When I feel such a resistance while spearing, I try to spear a little more up-forward. This seems to be completly wrong. Confused if feeling resistance (from front) is really correct?

Thanks in advance,
Werner
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2012
flychick flychick is offline
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My take on that feeling of slight resistance on the front of the hand is that when when I feel it I know that I have opened up my armpit correctly. Also, it tells me that my spearing arm is correctly angled and, critically, that my fingers are pointing down and not forwards.
Terry told me in Turkey last October that the feeling of opening up the armpit was really important and I know that when I am focussing on this in my practise I can consistently drop one SPL.
My hands tend to have a life of their own, so since the Windsor workshop I have been swimming with fists a lot and this has helped me to think about spearing straight to the 'over the bonnet' position. Also, the fists enable me to feel the water on the back of the hand more easily.
Warm regards,
Nicki
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hi Andy,

please excuse for my additional question in your thread.



CoachSuzanne, how to get rid of that "wrong" feeling? When I feel such a resistance while spearing, I try to spear a little more up-forward. This seems to be completly wrong. Confused if feeling resistance (from front) is really correct?

Thanks in advance,
Werner
werner, that feeling is my feedback that ive created the shape i need. swimming for humans is a compromise. trading drag with out gangly bodies for propulsion that works with our personal strenghth and flexibility. position one is very streamlined, but if it sets you up to lose anchoring surface and push downward or drop the elbow while stroking the streamline at that specific point isnt helping as we cant stay there forever
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USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #14  
Old 11-10-2012
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Thank you very much, CoachSuzanne,

Quote:
..swimming for humans is a compromise...
Surely, but TI will help to find the very best compromise...

Quote:
...position one is very streamlined, but if it sets you up to lose anchoring surface and push downward or drop the elbow while stroking the streamline at that specific point isnt helping as we cant stay there forever
If my cold ist over, back in the pool I'll go and find a focus for my next weeks. Hope fiddling around a little helps to find the right (best TI's) one.

Regards,
Werner

PS:
Quote:
...at that specific point isnt helping as we cant stay there forever...
Is not that really sad? :-/
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post

PS:
Is not that really sad? :-/
Its the long slow roll up the hill on the chain that makes rollercoasters exciting, just as its the anticipation of that post spear feeling that gets you going to the pool 4 times a week?

If we could stay endlessly in spear I reckon we'd find swimming less magical, but I get your point.
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Its the long slow roll up the hill on the chain that makes rollercoasters exciting, just as its the anticipation of that post spear feeling that gets you going to the pool 4 times a week?

If we could stay endlessly in spear I reckon we'd find swimming less magical, but I get your point.

Love this comparison! :)
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #17  
Old 11-10-2012
sinker sinker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post

But like I said, aside from that, I like thse ideas. I would blend stages 1-3 into more of a chunked stroke thought to the point I try to spear straight to hte relaxed draped catch position intitially.

!
Boy am I confused by this thread. Am I to interpret this to mean that I should not spear a straight arm to my x y coordinates and glide with it extended while the other arm recovers? But that I should spear with the arm slightly bent and
begin forming the catch as I glide? This is the only way I can interpret chunking stages 1-3 together. What happened to the "patient lead arm" principle?
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinker View Post
Boy am I confused by this thread. Am I to interpret this to mean that I should not spear a straight arm to my x y coordinates and glide with it extended while the other arm recovers? But that I should spear with the arm slightly bent and
begin forming the catch as I glide? This is the only way I can interpret chunking stages 1-3 together. What happened to the "patient lead arm" principle?
Yes. the patient lead arm is still there. fast forward to 50 seconds in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4

See what you can glean.

You'll have to experiemnt with your own swimming depending on where you're at in your stroke. For some people who have never felt a streamline, enjoying positoin #1 is a new sensation and should be savored. For me, position #1 leads to difficulty getting to position 3 without compromising something else. I've discovered this via my own swimming and by watching videos of myself countless times and getting feedback from other coaches watching me in the moment.

Experiment, discovery, enjoy...
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #19  
Old 11-10-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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I am with you, sinker, getting confused here.

I don't know about this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
...
But like I said, aside from that, I like thse ideas. I would blend stages 1-3 into more of a chunked stroke thought to the point I try to spear straight to hte relaxed draped catch position intitially...

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
...In fact, after spending several years focused on spearing to #1 (the X/Y coordinates as we sometimes say) in the last year or two I've focused more on:
...
Drop into 'draped arm' position.
...
What does that mean? Is this talking about that 'draped' arm position a talk about physical posture or is it about a mental image? Probably you gonna take the the easy way out and say 'both',...

That draped position, whatever it is. When I watch the Terry & Shinji sync swim video I can see a very clear spearing to a xy position, relatively high in the water with Terry, with Shinji also. The xy seems to be a bit higher on breathing strokes, a bit lower on non-breathing ones. And there is a clear pause in that position. So I don't know where this draped position enters the game?

The same with the mail slot entry. While Shinji points his hand relatively steep into the water on reentering and then moves it under water quite straight along the surface, Terry points down also but straightens the arm out above the water line and when his fingers enter the water his arm is almost straight and and is flat just above the water. So it seems the mail slot entry is more of a mental image here.

I personally am more the #1 swimmer. That spearing gets my sole focus when swimming at faster rates and is my only means to maintain a glide at higher TT rates under 1.1 or 1 sec. The rest of the catch and pull and out of the water is one continuous movement that follows the spear.

So, any enlightening comments here?
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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ill try to post a video later thsi week of that endless pool session i mentioned just above where mat & tracey were both coaching me
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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