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  #11  
Old 05-28-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi swimust

I suppose it's silly to point out that when you are swimming your elbow is moving forward anyway before you make the catch, but I suppose you mean to think of the elbow moving forward as the wrist is dropping to face the bottom of the pool. Once you have caught your armful of water and started to roll to the other side, presumably the elbow can move backwards in relation to your shoulder. Ideally it should still be moving forward relative to the wall of the pool, but is it? I think you need a quite fancy video set-up to determine that.
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Hi swimust

I suppose it's silly to point out that when you are swimming your elbow is moving forward anyway before you make the catch, but I suppose you mean to think of the elbow moving forward as the wrist is dropping to face the bottom of the pool. Once you have caught your armful of water and started to roll to the other side, presumably the elbow can move backwards in relation to your shoulder. Ideally it should still be moving forward relative to the wall of the pool, but is it? I think you need a quite fancy video set-up to determine that.
I am not "going there" to your complicated descriptions :)
Just read the Suzanne blog and you will see that "just moving the elbow forward" is enough and creates the magic.
Its a bit hard to believe because You are NOT(!) focusing on the forearm when you do that, and it "doesn't make sense", but it works.
Like so many things in swimming, there are surprises on the way to learning. This is one of those surprises.
During the catch phase, I only focus on moving the elbow forward. I ignore the forearm. I found it today, it makes no sense, but that's how it works well. :)
Of course that you must use the momentum of the entering arm before you start the catch. You wait a bit, just as Suzanne described it in her blog. Please read her blog, she gave the link in her reply. Its 100% correct and for a change, a have a good authority to back me up, its not my crazy imagination.

You said ..."Once you have caught your armful of water..." - That's my point exactly. I do NOT catch "armful of water"! I avoid that. Suzanne tells how she stopped catching a "wall of water" after finding the "silky way". I strongly recommend reading her blog.
Took me about 3 years to get the idea... no rush ;)
I found it by 'try and error' as usual. I focused on using the momentum, then added the "elbow forward" and suddenly it worked.
It was on Saturday, 3 days ago. Thanks to you, I started working on my stroke instead of inventing mad body rotations.
Thanks again for changing my understanding of the swim concept. Horses (arm) lead the carriage (body rotation), its not the other way around! :) So thanks again for fixing my head in this case.
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Last edited by swimust : 05-28-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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I think there's still an armful of water when you have the silky magic, but can't be sure since it isn't a feeling I'm familiar with. Working on it, though.
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
...but can't be sure since it isn't a feeling I'm familiar with..
You have answered your own question in the quote above ;)
It gave me "new sensation" in body balance and loose shoulders. That's why its important, its not just about the catch.
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Last edited by swimust : 05-29-2013 at 05:22 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-29-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Hi swimust

I suppose it's silly to point out that when you are swimming your elbow is moving forward anyway before you make the catch, but I suppose you mean to think of the elbow moving forward as the wrist is dropping to face the bottom of the pool. Once you have caught your armful of water and started to roll to the other side, presumably the elbow can move backwards in relation to your shoulder. Ideally it should still be moving forward relative to the wall of the pool, but is it? I think you need a quite fancy video set-up to determine that.
I don't think it's silly at all because very few people seem to discover this on their own. It's revelatory for some!
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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1 of June 2013 is a good day to start swimming Shinji TI properly!
Right... 6 days ago I started basking in the sunshine of the magic catch ;)
Have I got a swim of that?... of course not. To be honest, I am sure I had this feeling long ago but other parts were missing in my swim. So last night and today had new 'brain storming' sessions in and out of the pool.

Here are my "updates":
-------------------------
1) About 6 days ago, after finding the "silky way", I invented an imaginary "momentum" coming from the entering arm and used by the stroking arm. I did that because I was so focused on holding silky water that I stopped doing the famous Shinji anchor. that's nasty...
I was starting the shift to the other side before the catch. That's wrong, I must do the 'holy grail' of the Shinji swim, the anchor, later in the swim.
2) I now hold water in the forearm BEFORE moving the elbow forward. I was moving the elbow and ignoring the forearm during the catch... a donkey :)
3) ANCHOR- Cant swim without it. The focal point of the Shinji swim.
4) AT LAST... the "torso twist" mystery in my crazy head was 'put to bed' and solved! Its just a natural outcome of the hip roll, not an independent act!

Only 60 minutes in the pool which is a very short time for a qualified helpless donkey like me. When you know what you are doing you do not need too much time.
I think that my stuff sounds good, any opinions?... Lets hope, fingers crossed, etc, etc..

P.S. - I haven't started a new thread with my 'amazing discoveries'. You can thank me for that... ;)
My glory day will be a new shining video over 25 meters :) if I will feel ok with my swim, I may do it tomorrow.
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Last edited by swimust : 06-01-2013 at 08:22 AM.
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2013
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Swimust,

In the pool the other day and did get something close to the "silky" catch as has been described. I did think of the elbow moving forward, but also did find myself thinking forearm; not optimum. Will think just elbow...see what happens.
The best thing about the swim was my standard underswitch practice that I have been working on. I noticed better left side breathing and easier breathing all around. I have noticed before a problem with bobbing that would leave me too far under the water when I went for a bite. Now the change in the catch that I'm working on has helped that too. I think that I may have been pushing down water without realizing it, being impatient with the catch.
So things are better, day by day.
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  #18  
Old 06-03-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dprevish View Post
Swimust,

In the pool the other day and did get something close to the "silky" catch as has been described. I did think of the elbow moving forward, but also did find myself thinking forearm; not optimum. Will think just elbow...see what happens.
The best thing about the swim was my standard underswitch practice that I have been working on. I noticed better left side breathing and easier breathing all around. I have noticed before a problem with bobbing that would leave me too far under the water when I went for a bite. Now the change in the catch that I'm working on has helped that too. I think that I may have been pushing down water without realizing it, being impatient with the catch.
So things are better, day by day.
You should read the CoachSuzanne blog and not take my comments as accurate.
In my last reply before this one, I changed my catch and I started to hold water BEFORE moving the elbow forward. So, I was wrong in previous comments when I said that I should ignore the forearm. My last "update" is to first hold water with the forearm, and only then move the elbow forward.
But, learning to move the elbow forward is a must for doing the catch. I just add piece by piece to the swim. Like filling a puzzle.
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  #19  
Old 06-03-2013
galax galax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
After starting to move the elbow forward during the catch, I sensed for the first time in my life how the forearm pushes water molecules in a delicate and precise way.
Sorry for silly question but I have a doubt: which elbow ? The one in recovery phase or the one submerged?
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2013
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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ok Galax I also have a silly question

Is the elbow driven arm out of the water or in the water? I thought it was out of the water--in the recovery position. If that is so, how could one feel a wall of water?

Sherry
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