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  #111  
Old 03-06-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian mac View Post
After relatively solid TT and speed work at shorter distances, I am trying to adjust this methodology to longer duration repeats. After a 900 metre warmup the main set was 6 x 200, 1 min rest between repeats.
Results- short course metres:
1 & 2 with TT@ 1.0 stroke rate/50- 29 2:38/2:38
3 & 4 with TT@ 0.98 stroke rate/50 -30 2:37/2:37
5 & 6 with TT @0.96 stroke rate/50 - 31 2:36/2:36

although pleased with precision, I need to develop a bit more speed. I shall start focusing on quicker TT's between .96 -.93 while looking at trokes/50 of 31-32.
This was a morning swim and no other fast swimmers in pool, but lots of areas to focus on.
Ian
I like the way you instinctively meet your set objective as per your descending times above. There must be something in it that links to athletic success.

I was trying to hold 8x200 last week at target race pace of 3:20. I maintained my pace and SPL all my times were within 3.21 and 3.24, whereas I guess just your mindset would have put you under 3.20 after the first repeat if you had been me (ceteris parabis on swimming ability).

Some learning in that for me.

How many weeks before the comp? All the best with it.
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  #112  
Old 03-06-2012
terry terry is offline
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Ian
Would you share with us how the process you are pursuing this season contrasts with how you may have trained in the past?

In particular, if you could illuminate your mental process -- how you view the 'problem' - conceive and execute solutions, evaluate and adjust your path, etc. -- in contrast to how all that stuff occurred to you when your training may have been more traditional (and I hope I'm not making assumptions about past practices.)

I ask this, because in my own experience, since shifting from workouts designed mainly to make me stronger and fitter, more fatigue resistant -- and even to 'hardwire' particular paces -- let's say a pace of 1:12/100y to be held for 10 to 16 continuous 100s, which was my training goal at 55. Before switching to the SPL/Tempo Algorithm, it felt like a well-aimed, yet still mainly hopeful, shot-in-the-dark.
Now it feels like a, well a math problem performed in four dimensions -- SPL, Tempo, Duration and Perceived Effort.
And there's something I sense as distinctly calming and grounding in that shift.

I hope I haven't seemed anxious to put words in your mouth, but more to frame my query clearly.
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  #113  
Old 03-06-2012
AWP AWP is offline
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[quote=ian mac;26965]After relatively solid TT and speed work at shorter distances, I am trying to adjust this methodology to longer duration repeats. After a 900 metre warmup the main set was 6 x 200, 1 min rest between repeats.
Results- short course metres:
1 & 2 with TT@ 1.0 stroke rate/50- 29 2:38/2:38
3 & 4 with TT@ 0.98 stroke rate/50 -30 2:37/2:37
5 & 6 with TT @0.96 stroke rate/50 - 31 2:36/2:36

(/QUOTE]



It would be interesting to see you perform this "Algorithm" as a pyramid set, beginning with 15/16 spl @ 1.0 to 14/15 spl @ .96 then back to 1.0 and 15/16 spl or
Perhaps beginning @ .96 and 15/16 spl to 1.0 and 14/15 spl then back to .96 but try and continue to reduce spl or hold the same!
Boy, it's easy to think out loud and have someone else (more keen) do the swimming. ; )
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  #114  
Old 03-09-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default TT, Math problems, back to basics

Terry, AWP et al,
Thank you as always for your continued support, comments, criticisms and enthusiasms. Currently I am on a 2 year training goal. I am now 54 and at the end of the 50-54 masters age group. Next year, like my training partner Michael(56) I hope to qualify for the FINA world top ten. The following year the Masters World Championships will be held in Montreal where I was born. I last competed 20 years ago in those championships when held in Montreal. Then I managed a 9th place in the 400 and 6th in the 100 butterfly. I shall be curious to see where I stand 20 years later.

I have been very fortunate that for more than 40 years swimming has been a constant joy to me. As many of my perspectives change through my life, the way that I approach swim training now is much different from my youth. I was one of those 20,000 metre+/day guys. Often I had far less appreciation for what I was doing than I do now. However, this is true of many aspects of my life. As they say, youth is wasted on the young.

Of the few things to which I am passionate, I am constantly learning. This year regarding swimming the most significant changes have been primarily mathematical. As a distance guy, intrinsic appreciation for pace (ninja) has always been a significant factor in training. The advent of the TT has significantly improved my visceral (neural?) appreciation for stroke rate.

Perhaps as an aside, I want to explain the need for many of us to compete. I have stated previously and often that there is a pure, unadulterated joy of moving beautifully through the water. Slow, fast-it doesn't matter. Nonetheless, there is something invigorating about setting goals to push oneself toward and accomplishing them. As a caveat, I firmly believe that the journey is far more important than the destination (man's reach exceeding his grasp and such), but being the best one can in any regard is rewarding.

As much an inspiration as Terry has been for me, at times I don't always agree with every one of his assertions. One in particular is that "Faster just happens". I am a 6'1" swimmer with 40 years of intense training behind me. Unlike most swimming neophytes, I can swim thousands of metres maintaining a SPL of 15 @1:20-1:24 until the cows come home. But that would get boring long before the cows come home. For myself and many others the challenges start when we begin to (as Terry likes to say) red line. Pushing oneself to move through the water as quickly and efficiently as one can. Red lining is far different than effortless. It requires "ninja" like (to coin another Terry phrase) focus to factor in all 3 elements of fast swimming- distance per stroke, stroke rate and TIME.

Ah yes, TIME. So, unless one doesn't care when the cows come home, time does become a factor. I presume that few TI swimmers wish to swim effortlessly more slowly than they are currently. For most who are not near their neural threshold , as they continue to improve either SPL or SR ,or both, faster will happen. For the serious competitors though, Terry very much included, I firmly believe a certain amount of mental will is required. To be the best that one can be in any endeavour requires a focus that goes beyond "just happening". Planning, focus and EFFORT are required. One doesn't just become higher,faster, stronger. The aforementioned are all components to success.

Personally the TT has been a godsend.Before I had studiously counted strokes. I had paid attention to time and pacing. Stroke rate had previously been a fairly vague/uncertain notion. With the TT it has become very powerful and significant in planning practices. It has allowed me to concentrate on hip rotation at different rhythms while maintaining stroke length and factoring time. For those who want to swim faster, after learning to efficiently swim a certain SPL, to get faster must come from stroke rate.

Today's practice went back slightly to get a better sense of the "neural" (hard wiring?. ) After a 900 metre warm up,focusing on the '4321' ( 4 x 25, 3 x 50, 2 x 75, 1 x 100), I set my TT 3 times/set @1.0, .98, .96, with a 100
metre active rest between sets.
Results:
1. :19 ,:39, :59, 1:18 - 13/14 spl
2. :19, :38, :58, 1:17 -14 spl
3. :18, :37, :57, 1:16 - 14/15 spl

so now, we're just playing around to find the optimum - I shall be working on slightly quicker tempos over the next several practices to see what we can achieve.
Ian
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  #115  
Old 03-10-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Pacing and negative splitting

After Thursday's controlled sets with TT at a relatively brisk pace, I was mentally and physically prepared for slightly longer constant distances of a duration further than what I shall be competing at in 3 weeks.
Short course metres:

1. 16 x 25 assorted drills
2. 400 kick with fins (I use longer fins to help with leg strength and ankle flexibility
3. 400 pull - set TT at 1.02, maintain SPL of 15 time:5:25( which pleased me as this was an ok time for not trying during warmup)

Main Set:
2 x (10 x 100) 2 min. interval, negative split 2- min. rest after first 10
Results -
1. avg time 1:15 38/37
2. avg time 1:14 37.5/36.5
This was pretty satisfying. No TT was used as I feel it important to do one's fastest swimming without devices, you have to feel it intrinsically. The 1st set I led the lane, the 2nd set my 15 year old team mate Nicole led and I went second, giving her a 10 second lead and try to catch her. I believe that this motivation allowed me to swim 1 sec. faster/100 on set #2.

3. We followed up with 24 x 25 IM order on 30 sec. interval and a 300m warmdown where I concentrated on SPL of 14, thinking about spearing without bubbles and effortlessly starting hip rotation at the start of my catch.

Today, I was more concerned with time than anything else. I am aware that my SPL was between 15 and 16. Also from the previous workout, I had a good sense of tempo. As Louis Tharp has commented, they don't give out medals for whoever had the lowest SPL. So the times were right where I wanted them to be.

Although we don't discuss it much in forums, I wanted to comment on the value of training partners and/or swimming with a group/club. Nicole is the daughter of one of my masters' training partners. In the 2nd set when she was leading, I was catching up to her and she asked me to take over the lead. I told her no, she was doing great. She continued and finished up doing very well.

The mental aspect's of performance are so important. Having others working toward a similar goal can push one to perform at a greater level than they could by themselves. Vince Lombardi famously said that "Fatigue makes cowards of us all". Sometimes "fatigue" can be more mental than truly physical. Having training partners that can push us beyond what we might otherwise do is an exhilarating feeling.

Regarding lactic acid threshold, while I was swimming today, I felt great. The set was a demanding race pace set and as I write this, I can feel tightness in my muscles due to lactic acid buildup. After my very "neural" practice in the previous post, I did not have this feeling, so I'm not sure if I can call what I did today "lactic acid threshold" swimming, but it sure feels like it.

If anyone has suggestions for longer swims of 200-400 metres to prepare for strong races in 3 weeks, they would be appreciated.
Thanks-Ian
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  #116  
Old 03-11-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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Ian:
Have really enjoyed your posts and have learned allot from them.
Your mention of the World Masters meet in Montreal 1994, brings back many memories. At that time I had been swimming for 2 years having taken up swimming because I had to give up running because of a knee injury. In 1994 I was 59 and looking for a new experience so my wife and I went to Montreal and I swam the 50, 100, and 200m Free and the 50m Fly as well as relays with team Alberta. I finished in the middle of the pack in each (35th out 70)and we thoroughly enjoyed the meet and the city.
One of my most vivid memories was as follows. The warm up pool was in a room adjoining the main pool and with 5000 competitors it was a sea of writhing bodies. The warm ups were the most body contact I have ever had in swimming. Is this a memory for you?
One sad incident was a swimmer from California died on the deck after his race. His wife was quoted as saying "he died doing what he loved".
We are not sure if we can make it to Montreal this time as our travel abilities are restricted (health not legal) :o). It is ironic that I will again be at the high end of my age group. I must lobby for a 16 year gap next time.
Here in BC we have our Provincial meet in three weeks and the Canadian National in Kelowna on the May long weekend. If the body allows it I am aiming for both. Will you be in Kelowna?
Will watch for your results on Mymsc.ca.
I also find that when swimming at race speed I dont want the TT for your same reasons.
This looking ahead and planning and working toward goals is enhanced by the saying. "The trip is the trip."
Enjoy.
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Last edited by Grant : 03-11-2012 at 05:41 AM. Reason: Correction
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  #117  
Old 03-11-2012
che9194 che9194 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
In 1959 I was 59 and looking for a new experience
Wow! Really impressed that you are still swimming at 112 years young!!
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  #118  
Old 03-11-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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Che, I am sorry I gave incorrect information. I have since edited the posting.
In 1994 I was 59, now in 2014 I will be 79. I was making a joke that the next time the Worlds were held in Canada I would lobby for 2030 so I would be the pup of my age group.
Thanks for the gentle slap on the upside of the head.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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  #119  
Old 03-11-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Much as I would like to visit Montreal again (last time was in 1968/69 around New Year - an interesting experience to one accustomed to icy cold winters)., I do not enter the 80-84 group until 2015 and anyway I am very unlikely to meet the qualifying standards in any of my events, except possibly the 50 and 100 breast. I don't really fancy travelling all that way just to have NT entered after my name. ;-)

Otherwise, of course, it would be a wonderful experience, but I can get something similar by attending the national championships here. Next week I'll be swimming my usual bunch of events at Swansea for the Welsh Open Masters, starting with the 1500 next Saturday. It's usually on the Friday but this year they have compressed the meet to two days. I'm hoping to swim a bit faster this year than last year, which so far I have managed in the 50, 200 and 400 Free.

I've been following the posts with interest.
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  #120  
Old 03-11-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Love in the swimming community

Grant, Richardsk, Che9194,

Thank you for your comments. Glad that you are enjoying the posts.

Grant, I love your tag "May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose." That's what I so enjoy about Total Immersion, that Kaizen desire to improve, learn, seek more from life that transcends swimming and carries over to all aspects of our lives. I am constantly amazed at the level of intelligence I read in the various forums and posts. Terry inspires so many in so many ways, and it makes me proud to be part of this global community.

I sometimes have the suspicion that some within the TI community perceive me to be a snotty elite racer who can't appreciate that most TI members to - use your term, chose a speed different from my own. Most of my posts are oriented toward fast swimming and training. Terry has been very encouraging to me in this regard, and I have always read his posts in this vein with a desire to learn. It pleases me to know that many of you out there are appreciating my contribution.

Recently I undertook training a friend who wants to do a half Ironman who never had any formal swim instruction. We have committed to a 12 week program as I believe that it takes that long to develop good training and swimming habits. Watching the joy of a neophyte as he learns new skills and starts looking like a swimmer is very rewarding. He has gone from an SPL of 24 to 17 in just 6 weeks. When I read of Phip's recent mile accomplishment in another thread, I could certainly share his joy. As well, on our Master's club it is as equally joyful to watch a "new to racing" team member spectacularly drop their personal best time as it is watch my training partner win all events in freestyle at Nationals and then be humbled by my friend and former team member(back in the 70's-80's) from U of Toronto in the 100 fly by over 7 seconds and come 2nd.

Che, although your rebuke was meant humorously, back in 1994 the 1st centenarian competed at the World championships. I remember as he was warming up in the change room with one of his younger 80something team mates. It was very quiet and I realized that every man in the room was quietly watching him with respect and admiration. Five world records, standing ovations and an audience with the mayor of Montreal. The great swimmer Jim McConnica, now in his 60's, commented after turning 50 that he intended to live to 150 so that he would only be considered middle-aged at 75. So be careful- we may have someone swimming in the 110-114 age group sooner than you think.

Richardsk, my maternal grandparents immigrated from Pontypridd to Montreal in the 30's and I once had the pleasure of visiting your lovely country - it would be great to see you again in Montreal should good fortune and circumstances allow.

Next week shall be the last week of really hard training with my swim partner before we begin our taper. Today is a day of rest. Several of my younger children and I shall be going to a local pool to play (mermaid King & Queen being a favourite).

Keep spreading the love through swimming.
Ian
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