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  #21  
Old 01-12-2012
jtravis jtravis is offline
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jtravis
Default Should I practice Superman Glide or Superman Flutter?

Plumflower, congratulations!! That is wonderful you improved so much. It's also encouraging to me, since my legs sink badly. If you could improve, maybe I can too!

For the experts: should I spend my time practicing Superman Glide or Superman Flutter? In the TI workshop, the SF was emphasized--we did not do much SG at all. The coaches told me I needed to practice lots of kicking, during SF and in Sweet Spot and vertical kicking. But I've been reading lots of "don't practice kicking much", "keep legs quiet" advice in the forums.

Since I've not been having much luck with practicing kicking, I'm wondering if I should change course, work on balance and SG, and concentrate on quieting my legs. I'd appreciate any advice!
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2012
cynthiam cynthiam is offline
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Sounds like a great lesson, PlumFlower! :) I knew Coach Shinji would help you out.

I do superman glide at the beginning of every pool session. If my balance doesn't feel good doing sg, it won't feel good during whole stroke (which still needs a good bit of work).

Congratulations on your progress & keep it up!
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  #23  
Old 01-12-2012
PlumFlower PlumFlower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadu View Post
Hi PlumFlower...Congratulations !!

I have been trying to learn the SG. I can glide, but need to kick. If I dont, they sink.
From your post, I did not understand the second point which says
"bend knees so that shoulders are under water". Does that mean to relax the legs at knees? Can you please explain this bit more?
Yadu:

I was like you before. Let me explain again: to do SG, there are 3 steps (assume you stand in water): first is to extend your arms before you and 6 inches below water surface. second is to bend knees so that shoulders are under water. Then you lean into water with upper body straight.

The key here is to lean forward fearlessly, trusting water will support you.

Before SG, we did the "leaning" drill. You stand straight in water with hands on thighs. Then lean forward into water. Don't use your feet to push the pool bottom. Imagine if you do that on land, you will fall. But in water, water will support you.

The focal point is thinking about moving belly forward.

Hope it helps.
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  #24  
Old 01-12-2012
PlumFlower PlumFlower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtravis View Post
For the experts: should I spend my time practicing Superman Glide or Superman Flutter? In the TI workshop, the SF was emphasized--we did not do much SG at all. The coaches told me I needed to practice lots of kicking, during SF and in Sweet Spot and vertical kicking. But I've been reading lots of "don't practice kicking much", "keep legs quiet" advice in the forums.
Jtravis:

I encourage you to do SG. If your feet sink rapidly, you need to work on balance. Today in the pool, I could do this: first SG, then stroked several times without breathing, at the last stroke, my leading arm did not pull back so I returned to SG position, and I was glad to find my feet were still not sinking after those strokes. However if I added breathing to those several strokes, and return to SG, my feet sank. So my problem is breathing. It seems now breathing caused my balance to be off.

Last edited by PlumFlower : 01-12-2012 at 06:36 AM.
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  #25  
Old 01-12-2012
PlumFlower PlumFlower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynthiam View Post
Sounds like a great lesson, PlumFlower! :) I knew Coach Shinji would help you out.

I do superman glide at the beginning of every pool session. If my balance doesn't feel good doing sg, it won't feel good during whole stroke (which still needs a good bit of work).

Congratulations on your progress & keep it up!
Cynthiam,

Thank you for your encouragement. It is amazing that such a seemingly simple drill has so many sutlties. This year after each lesson, Shinji will give a free DVD containing all the drills covered. Are you in SF? Feel free if you want to borrow. I work in SF and live on Peninsula.
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  #26  
Old 01-12-2012
ALMD ALMD is offline
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ALMD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtravis View Post
Plumflower, congratulations!! That is wonderful you improved so much. It's also encouraging to me, since my legs sink badly. If you could improve, maybe I can too!

For the experts: should I spend my time practicing Superman Glide or Superman Flutter? In the TI workshop, the SF was emphasized--we did not do much SG at all. The coaches told me I needed to practice lots of kicking, during SF and in Sweet Spot and vertical kicking. But I've been reading lots of "don't practice kicking much", "keep legs quiet" advice in the forums.

Since I've not been having much luck with practicing kicking, I'm wondering if I should change course, work on balance and SG, and concentrate on quieting my legs. I'd appreciate any advice!
I agree with you 100 %. When I first started the coach kept telling me to kick and work on a better kick...but remember when you start, you do SG, and skating , and the need for kick then is to maintain streamline and balance. Afterwards when I moved to switches and strokes I got the advice, don't kick so much...I was like ..what?? you were telling me few lessons ago to kick and now to slow down your kick...apparently when we are starting we need to balance and thats the role of the kick and maintain streamline...once I progressed to switches and strokes and after the coach told me to slow down the kick, you feel less tired if you slow down your kick and let your legs streamline behind you as you switch and stroke...and if you watched Terry and Shinji while swimming, they are doing the minimal kicking , the 2 BK ...and they swim a lot better than someone who is kicking so much..

I guess is when we start , in SG and SF, the kick are relaxed and compact,mainly to maintain streamline, in skating and sweetspot to maintain balance ( not much for propulsion ), finally with switching, and whole stroke ( 2 beat kick for rotation more than propulsion ...so it depends what stage you are , and the need to kick more or less....
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2012
isaac.ohel isaac.ohel is offline
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isaac.ohel
Default Shinji Magic

Coach Shinji must have some magic ointment he spreads on his students. I followed the instructions above, and the results are the same. My legs sink.

However, following Coach Susanne's advice in a different thread, I tried to minimize my flutter in the SG to the minimum necessary to maintain the legs near the surface. It was much less than I thought, even though the motion was slightly in reverse.
following that, it was much easier to slow down my kicking and do almost a 2bk during in spear switch exercise. The almost-2BK carried over to a few whole strokes (no breathing). So in total, the SG exercise helped.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2012
cynthiam cynthiam is offline
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Location: San Francisco, USA
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cynthiam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumFlower View Post
This year after each lesson, Shinji will give a free DVD containing all the drills covered. Are you in SF? Feel free if you want to borrow. I work in SF and live on Peninsula.
Thanks for the offer, PlumFlower. He gave me that DVD after my lesson. I watch it often and still have work to do. :)

For you folks still struggling with SG, here are a couple of points Coach Shinji told me:

- Engage your core and relax your shoulders, elbows, and neck. SG isn't about just flopping around. I was too relaxed at first, not at all toned, and couldn't figure out why SG wasn't working.
- Make sure there isn't too much of a curve in your low back (I needed to neutralize mine a little & it really helped)
- Keep your head in line with your spine.
I pay attention to the crown of my head pointing forward toward the other end of the pool, leading with it. There's a feeling of the crown of my head, neck, and upper back being one unit, if that makes sense, when my balance is good. They're all aligned.

Hope this helps. Coach Shinji's magic (and that of other good TI coaches) is that he can see how one little thing you do wrong will affect other things. So he helps you fix the one little thing, and then you get improvements elsewhere too.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2012
jtravis jtravis is offline
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jtravis
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Thanks so much, cynthiam, plumflower, and everyone else! I will use all these suggestions and let you know whether it helps.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2012
Yadu Yadu is offline
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Yadu
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Hi Plumflower, I tried ur suggestion about SG today. The result was better than before, but still my legs were sinking after 3-4 secs, although much less flutter was needed to keep them afloat. I will practice more on the focal points u suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumFlower View Post
Yadu:

I was like you before. Let me explain again: to do SG, there are 3 steps (assume you stand in water): first is to extend your arms before you and 6 inches below water surface. second is to bend knees so that shoulders are under water. Then you lean into water with upper body straight.

The key here is to lean forward fearlessly, trusting water will support you.

Before SG, we did the "leaning" drill. You stand straight in water with hands on thighs. Then lean forward into water. Don't use your feet to push the pool bottom. Imagine if you do that on land, you will fall. But in water, water will support you.

The focal point is thinking about moving belly forward.

Hope it helps.
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