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  #31  
Old 12-21-2011
terry terry is offline
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Alan
Another great example of clear and strategic thinking in practice. I've read in so many places that the brain performs at its highest functioning capacity when working on a single, clearly-defined task.
When you first start designing practices according to this principle, defining a 'brain task' could be Mail Slot Entry.
At a more advanced level of practice - where you assuredly are now - the central brain task can be much more broadly defined I.E. To 'protect' Stroke Length (SPL) while subjecting it to a variety of 'stressors.'

The possible stressors for SPL include (i) longer duration/distance; (ii) faster tempo, pace or time; and (iii) shorter rest interval - as well as physical or mental fatigue. But once you're clear that your primary task for that practice (or at least set) is hardening SL (increasing its resistance to breakdown), then it follows that you may choose to be flexible on the other metrics.

You increased Tempo - but decreased Duration/Distance - to accommodate. You decided to prioritize SPL+Tempo over SPL+Duration. Smart move.

In yesterday's practice, as I found fatigue and discomfort increasing in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th 250s, I made an 'executive decision' to increase the recovery interval I allowed myself between repeats.
I swam #1 on a 4:00 interval, or 40 seconds rest between finishing #1 and starting #2. I increased my interval to 4:20 (or a minute's rest) after #2, and to a 4:40 interval (or 80 seconds rest) after #3.

My primary goal was to maintain 16 SPL and a 3:20/250y pace and I judged that without gradually increasing rest to counteract accumulating fatigue I would fall short.

Once you understand and begin to apply these principles, you never again need to depend on anyone else to 'give you a workout.' In fact, the workouts someone else might give you are highly likely to seem pointless.
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Terry Laughlin
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May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story

Last edited by terry : 12-21-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-21-2011
terry terry is offline
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Alan
A subversive thought just struck me. Lisa B and Steve T (and God knows who else) are running workouts on LI that you recognize as lacking in clear focus or purpose. You expressed an eagerness to join Joe Petrush's practice group at SCCC.
Is there any pool where you could get a lane or two an hour or two a week and begin offering a TI type practice for interested swimmers. There must be dozens who would leap at the chance to join such a group. And then you could just grow from there. You don't need TI coach training or certification to do so, and we would happily help you with promotion.
A good way to get your feet wet and get up a head of steam toward the time you pursue TI Coach Cert more formally.
TI-Asia trains what they call Club Leaders to organize meetups of TI swimmers in a variety of locales. They meet a couple times a month to practice together, and afterward often have a meeting to discuss their common interests in technique, practice, even philosophy.

Who else might be interested in becoming a TI Club Leader? I'll develop a training protocol.
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Terry Laughlin
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May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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  #33  
Old 12-21-2011
AWP AWP is offline
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Terry
Funny, just last evening I had a discussion with a swimming acquaintance about just such a thing. He most recently was training with STs group and was put off so he was looking to 'evolve' and resume training. I found myself rattling off multiple ideas he could apply to his swimming then cut myself off and plainly said let's meet up and I'll show you.
The idea of doing something similar at the Aquatic Center seemed possible as he relayed his most recent practices. Since his daughters are still in the juniors program with STs group he goes but swims on his own or with S. Barkan, who he knows and ran into, because he knows not what to do. I mused about possibly just meeting and jumping in with some swimmers there and at some point saying "hey, let's try this...!"
Don't know how well that would work and it remains my 'problem' in actually finding some TI stalwarts who are willing to venture away from their tri or masters groups. I guess they wouldn't have to just compliment it with some really focused swimming and like-minded energy. I have a few in mind already...
I've also dreamed and hoped for something similar for open water practices here on the North Shore as there seems to be none and if there is this could bridge us together.
Thank you for the suggestion and consideration and yes a protocol would be ideal, I'm in!

Best
Alan
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  #34  
Old 12-21-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default Interesting Concept

Having spent a good portion of the last three years with pool mates, some watching in bewilderment others curious and a few just thinking I"m nuts, there is interest in what I am doing.

The current Masters Program although traditional and focuses on some technique is obviously not giving many what they want. I currently and working with a couple of individuals on different skills and focal points. A comment this A.M. really hit home, "... I just don't get the feedback while in Masters..."

I can feel the interest in the way I swim and drill growing. Especially with those who are strugglers and wanna be tris. They stop watch and ask basic questions as to why I do this or that.

Figure when my SPL's are 16-18 for 25m with 25-30 seconds pace while others are in mid to upper 20s with much slower pace hard not to pay attention.

In no way do I profess being an expert and or even in the upper tier of TI. I can say with confidence I know what is right and wrong and can comfortably help others improve their strokes.

The end game, time is getting close for just what you advocated Terry. Not being a coach, while treading where I am, the footprints must be soft and non threatening.

Ideas on how to proceed with the development of a group are always welcome, my thoughts are it will and is evolving on its own.


Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #35  
Old 12-22-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westyswoods View Post

The current Masters Program although traditional and focuses on some technique is obviously not giving many what they want. I currently and working with a couple of individuals on different skills and focal points. A comment this A.M. really hit home, "... I just don't get the feedback while in Masters..."


Westy
Why canĘt pools join the technology age and give us 32" flat screens at the end of the lane on a 1-2 minute delay. How much quicker would you improve if you could swim a 50 watch a 50, swim a 50 watch it back. One lane per pool would make all the difference and a computer, camera and screen fit for purpose would be a few hundred dollars these days.
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  #36  
Old 12-22-2011
cynthiam cynthiam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Why canĘt pools join the technology age and give us 32" flat screens at the end of the lane on a 1-2 minute delay. How much quicker would you improve if you could swim a 50 watch a 50, swim a 50 watch it back. One lane per pool would make all the difference and a computer, camera and screen fit for purpose would be a few hundred dollars these days.
I like your idea!

I can't get myself videoed at my pool -- they don't allow it. Even if it's fairly empty and I have an outside lane to myself. *sigh*

Maybe they won't install the technology because then everyone would see how ineffective their lessons are. Much as I like the instructors personally, I don't like their curriculum. I'd still be swimming uphill and extremely frustrated if I weren't a motivated student who sought better instruction.
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  #37  
Old 12-22-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Even if you are allowed to video at your local pool, it would be so much better to be able to see your swimming and then get back in the pool to correct.

by the time you get your camera home and copy it to computer etc etc it loses some of its impact next time you swim
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  #38  
Old 12-22-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default Video Feedback

Andy points to a crucial piece of feedback. I am going to start taking my laptop to the pool when filmed UW with GOPRO, downside to this camera is no playback screen, just need to get my lovely bride to agree.

It is hard to go home, download, review and than transfer improvements back to the pool.

A benefit of coaching sessions with video plus playback capability while at the pool. Cost is the limiting factor though.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #39  
Old 12-22-2011
rbs24h rbs24h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I am going to try this today, hope its a correct set in line with your suggestions Terry.

SPL training with increased speed

Each set = 4x25, 2x50, 1x100 =300m

SPL and TEMPO SECONDS PER LENGTH inc TURN and push off
SPL 14, SR 1.3 24.258
SPL 15, SR 1.2 23.592
SPL 16, SR 1.1 22.726
SPL 17, SR 1.0 21.66
SPL 18, SR 0.9 20.394


REPEAT X1. I will also repeat any 25 or 50 I miss my SPL target on.

TOTAL DISTANCE IF SWUM PERFECT =3,000m

Where my current 1500m speed would be SR1.1 SPL 17/18. I anticipate that the first and last part of the sets will be the hardest for me. (Holding 14 SPL over 100m, and maintaining form, balance and rhythm at SR 0.9 which is around my TT threshold).

If I complete the fifth element then I will be swimming under my 100PB which is around 1:24 at the moment.
Trying similar today...Rest interval used? thx.
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  #40  
Old 12-22-2011
rbs24h rbs24h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
Alan
A subversive thought just struck me. Lisa B and Steve T (and God knows who else) are running workouts on LI that you recognize as lacking in clear focus or purpose. You expressed an eagerness to join Joe Petrush's practice group at SCCC.
Is there any pool where you could get a lane or two an hour or two a week and begin offering a TI type practice for interested swimmers. There must be dozens who would leap at the chance to join such a group. And then you could just grow from there. You don't need TI coach training or certification to do so, and we would happily help you with promotion.
A good way to get your feet wet and get up a head of steam toward the time you pursue TI Coach Cert more formally.
TI-Asia trains what they call Club Leaders to organize meetups of TI swimmers in a variety of locales. They meet a couple times a month to practice together, and afterward often have a meeting to discuss their common interests in technique, practice, even philosophy.

Who else might be interested in becoming a TI Club Leader? I'll develop a training protocol.
Definitely..
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