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  #1  
Old 12-15-2010
terry terry is offline
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Default How Much Faster can you swim without changing Stroke Count

Lately I've been focused on improving my ability to swim at a wide range of paces and speeds at a single stroke count.
On Monday morning I swam a series of 50s at 25 strokes (12+13) and descended from 45 to 38 sec. I thought a 7-second differential was pretty good.

This morning for my first set I swam a set of 100s starting @ 56 strokes (13-14-14-15). My first 100 was 1:34. During the first 10 x 100 I actually subtracted a couple of strokes (down to 54) while also improving my time to 1:23.

On my last 100 I took 56 strokes again, and swam 1:17. I think 17 seconds improvement in a 100 without adding strokes is probable my personal record. I doubt I would have been able to swim as much as 5 seconds faster without changing stroke count 40 years ago in college. That is, if I'd even counted strokes back then.

I'm coming to view this metric as a pretty good marker for one's ability to effectively convert effort - or strokes - into speed.

Try this challenge and let us know how you do.
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Old 12-15-2010
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Well, one could get the idea to extend the range into the slow area, where it is rather easy to maintain the SPL. Then you get a very wide range with the same stroke count. E.g. here:

A little old - but still valid

Taking the 1:28 (SPL=21) and 0:82 (SPL=21), and assuming 3 beeps for the pushoff in the slow range and 4 beeps in the fast range, I must have covered a range from 30.72 secs to 20.50 secs with an average of 21 strokes for 25m laps.

So, about 10 seconds. But does that really tell me something? My swimming capabilities are far away from Terry's while these numbers don't really show it.

What I mean is, when you do a 'how much slower can you swim without changing stroke count' you can get quite silly results.
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Old 12-15-2010
quad09 quad09 is offline
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Default Awesome Times For A Younger Swimmer

Super "T":

Wow!!! What awesome times, i am so impressed! God bless, keep up the Great swimming and Merry Christmas.

Awesome

Last edited by quad09 : 12-16-2010 at 01:07 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2010
AWP AWP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
Lately I've been focused on improving my ability to swim at a wide range of paces and speeds at a single stroke count.
This morning for my first set I swam a set of 100s starting @ 56 strokes (13-14-14-15). My first 100 was 1:34. During the first 10 x 100 I actually subtracted a couple of strokes (down to 54) while also improving my time to 1:23.
Try this challenge and let us know how you do.

I practice this as well quite often. I find only one 'draw back' in that I'm then 'stuck' at that SR and crave the TT (if only I had a properly working one, listen up Santa!)
This past weekend I swam a set right out of the TL handbook and so not surprised I find myself 'paralleling' this focus and practice. Although it was with different intentions it also was with similar purpose; hold within sl.

My set: 3 @ 4x100 (100 BK-BR between rds)
1-4 ~ 1:31-1:27 spl. 13-14 (avg. 54)
(B&B)
5-8 ~ 1:23/1:24 spl. 14-15 (avg. 56)*
(B&B)
9-10 ~ 1:21-1:22 spl. 14-15 (avg. 58)*
11-12 ~ 1:24-1:25 spl. 13-14 (avg. 54)

I noted that the 1:23 and 1:21 felt the most effortless and even a tad surprised at the actual time. It was my feeling I would hold a similar pace throughout albeit easier.
When I found on round 3 that my sl was climbing I made a 'conscious effort' to focus on bringing it back down as in the first round. This, and perhaps being joined in the lane, may have slowed me a bit.


Can't wait to give it a go, probably tonight! Thanks.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2010
terry terry is offline
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Alan
I like your idea of a Pyramid SPL set. I was planning to do a set of 5 x 3 x 100 this morning, increasing SPL slightly in each round. Naturally I would plan and expect for my average pace to improve in each round, and find that very easy to do. Instead I think I'll increase 1-3, then decrease SPL again in 4 & 5 and give myself the challenge to continue improving pace.

In both sets - the one yesterday where SPL remained constant, but pace improved continuously, and the one today where SPL will increase, then decrease, but pace improve continuously - you must do the same thing: Figure out how to generate more power AND apply it effectively.

The generating part test your ability to coordinate weight shift (hip nudge) and kick (toe-flick). The applying part tests your ability to convert that power into locomotion, not commotion. This means that the stroke moves your body forward rather than move the water around. Or grip-not-slip.

As you increase SPL, you're keeping power generation at a minimum, but cultivating water-feel in your hands and forearms for trapping and holding water. A relaxed hand is far more sensitive to that than a tense one.

After doing a Pyramid SPL set today, I'll report results here. Tomorrow I'll do the same set but with Pyramid Tempo.
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Last edited by terry : 12-17-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2010
AWP AWP is offline
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Terry
As always great and much needed input. I think I'll give your sets a run to continue the focus, thanks.
The "figure out" part is quite the conundrum but all the fun!

Alan
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2010
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
Well, one could get the idea to extend the range into the slow area, where it is rather easy to maintain the SPL. Then you get a very wide range with the same stroke count. E.g. here:

A little old - but still valid

Taking the 1:28 (SPL=21) and 0:82 (SPL=21), and assuming 3 beeps for the pushoff in the slow range and 4 beeps in the fast range, I must have covered a range from 30.72 secs to 20.50 secs with an average of 21 strokes for 25m laps.

So, about 10 seconds. But does that really tell me something? My swimming capabilities are far away from Terry's while these numbers don't really show it.

What I mean is, when you do a 'how much slower can you swim without changing stroke count' you can get quite silly results.
Haschu
I'm not sure you can still recall some of the subtler details of a set you did a bit over 4 months ago, but to get meaningful data from a Tempo + SPL set, it must actually be a Tempo + Beeps set.

When I do such a set I do two things to ensure accurate data
1) I allow myself only 3 beeps from pushing off to first stroke.
2) After the final stroke I count (which I register on hand entry) my hand must strike the wall before the next beep. If I hear another beep before my hand strikes the wall I either redo that repeat, or count that extra beep.

If you don't rigorously do both, the time you calculate from Tempo x SPL will seem to be faster than actual time. When tempo approaches and passes 1.0 sec/stroke doing both becomes quite challenging.

If you can't recall whether you did both, you might try repeating the set with those 'rules' and see where the data leads.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2010
Grant Grant is offline
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[quote=terry;15571]
2) After the final stroke I count (which I register on hand entry) my hand must strike the wall before the next beep. If I hear another beep before my hand strikes the wall I either redo that repeat, or count that extra beep.

Just to clarify Terry. If doing flip turns - the head must be going into (down) the turn before the next beep.
Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2010
terry terry is offline
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Grant
On flip turns, I allow 4 beeps between the beep that accompanies last hand hit prior to turn and first hand after it.
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Terry Laughlin
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May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2010
Grant Grant is offline
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Got it. Thanks Terry.
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