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  #1  
Old 11-13-2009
pepperr pepperr is offline
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Default Why do I still feel tired when I swim?

When I practice my wholestroke and swim 50's or 100's, I still am semi-gasping for breath. When I used to be able to swim one mile/day, I wouldn't feel tired, but it's been a month since and my endurance and VO2 max has dropped a lot.

Does anyone feel the same?
I've been doing TI for nearly 2 months now so y'all know.
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2009
elk-tamer elk-tamer is offline
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Are you swimming any faster than you used to? If you're gasping more than you used to, you are either using more oxygen or you're getting less air.
Do you gasp even going at an easy pace?
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2009
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Pepper

Been working on TI for almost two years. Used to swim up to a mile per session and never felt like I do after a drill session. Attempting to reprogram my breathing pattern has been very difficult, to the point I had to step back a couple of weeks ago and quit whole stroke until I get it. We need to get that comfort zone. I'm talking 25's-100's also.

Keep at it and patience is the key.

Westy
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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How often are you breathing ? Every other stroke , every third ?

Dave
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2009
atreides atreides is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperr View Post
When I practice my wholestroke and swim 50's or 100's, I still am semi-gasping for breath. When I used to be able to swim one mile/day, I wouldn't feel tired, but it's been a month since and my endurance and VO2 max has dropped a lot.

Does anyone feel the same?
I've been doing TI for nearly 2 months now so y'all know.
I think it has to do with the emphasis on SPL which requires gliding. As you become more streamlined, you can go further between strokes. But that requires that you have your head in the water which means that unless you are truely fish-like, you can't breathe. I discovered this when one day I started (for me) sprinting and actually felt better after the lap than I did when I did my energy saving stroke. My guess is that when you swam the old way, that you weren't as streamlined so you breathed more frequently. Try swimming with the old tempo but with your TI streamlining technique. I'll bet you feel better. The question I have is will a person's lung capacity gradually build so that they can accomodate less breathing between strokes or do you drill this way to emphasize streamlining but pick up the tempo when you do real whole stroke?
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2009
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atreides View Post
I think it has to do with the emphasis on SPL which requires gliding. As you become more streamlined, you can go further between strokes. But that requires that you have your head in the water which means that unless you are truely fish-like, you can't breathe. I discovered this when one day I started (for me) sprinting and actually felt better after the lap than I did when I did my energy saving stroke. My guess is that when you swam the old way, that you weren't as streamlined so you breathed more frequently. Try swimming with the old tempo but with your TI streamlining technique. I'll bet you feel better. The question I have is will a person's lung capacity gradually build so that they can accomodate less breathing between strokes or do you drill this way to emphasize streamlining but pick up the tempo when you do real whole stroke?
Do you mean to simply breath more often ?

Lung capacity: If you train your cardiovascular system the lung capacity grows. In my highschool days I was rowing, and that is putting an incredible load on your cardiovascular system. Some years later when I was in my twenties and I was a lot less into active sport I came across a lung volume test machine in a shopping mall, it was from a health insurance and they wanted to point out the smoking is bad to your health.
It was this machine where you blow in as much as you can with one blow and then it shows the volume. The guy in front of me in the queue didn't even make to 2 litres and they where almost shocked when I blew and the scale showed 6.5 liters. They where even more shocked when they heard that I was smoking - which I did at that time, unfortunately. There is no relation between smoking and lung capacity anyway, I think.
So, hold your breath and your lung volume will increase...
I think it will increase anyway. But would be quite interesting to measure it.

I just read in a website that the average lung capacity is 6 liter, so that guy in front of my was quite much out of average, not me.
On the website the suggestions for increasing the lung volume where in this order:
1: rowing
2. swimming
3. Jogging and walking.

There we go...

PS: another website: they say average lung volume is 2.5 liter for women and 3.5 liter for men. Seems to be quite little.
Whatever.
But any endurance sport will increase the lung volume.

I found an easy way to measure it:
Take a bucket which is a little bit transparent, fill it with water, put it in the pool, or bathtub and turn it around. It should only contain water.
Take a tube and do your best out-breath through the tube into the bucket. Make sure that the bucket is moved in such a way that the waterlevel inside and outside the bucket is the same while you are breathing in it, otherwise you get differences in air pressure.
After your out-breath you can see how much air is in the bucket. Or mark it, get it out, empty it and fill it with water up to the mark. Measure the water that you fill in.
Best is you have 10 l of lung volume, then you can empty the entire bucket and you don't have to play with measuring.
Oh forgot, you folks are imperial...

Last edited by haschu33 : 11-14-2009 at 02:37 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2009
atreides atreides is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
Do you mean to simply breath more often ?


...
Yes that is exactly what I mean. I am a runner and regularly run 5 and 6 miles at a time. I used to do a lot more but injuries have slowed me down. So why is it that I can torture myself for the better part of an hour on the treadmill or even outside but get that tightness in my chest at the end of a 25 meter lap? The answer has to be oxygen debt. When I swim faster,even though theorieticallly I'm expending more energy, I'm also breathing more frequently. And voile, I feel better. I'm a big guy (6'7, 245 lbs) and I suspect that it takes a lot of litres of oxygen to keep me going. I've got to either make my body more efficient in the use of oxygen or I have to increase the amount of it that I take in at a time or both. I would be interested in a program on how to do this. I feel like TI has taught me how to swim. But some quirk in by body makeup is holding me back. Maybe someone could suggest a training program to build up my stamina. Remember, I swim 25 meters just fine and will swim 50 meters and survive it but after that all bets are off. I'll do 300 or 400 meters a session with plenty of rest between laps normally. So where do I start?
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2009
JohanWJoubert JohanWJoubert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atreides View Post
Yes that is exactly what I mean... I feel like TI has taught me how to swim. But some quirk in by body makeup is holding me back. Maybe someone could suggest a training program to build up my stamina. Remember, I swim 25 meters just fine and will swim 50 meters and survive it but after that all bets are off. I'll do 300 or 400 meters a session with plenty of rest between laps normally. So where do I start?
Sorry for what turned out to be a long post. In short: keep training, but don't imprint bad habits.

My breathing breakthrough came with timing. I've only been swimming for 4 months now, and was quite discouraged after the first two.

I agree that breathing patterns, and what comes easy for some will be different than for others. But I think it was Nicodemus that wrote in the forum about breathing out that is the limiting factor. The problem is often not about getting too little air, but getting rid of too little. So I think that if you breath too frequently you actually may limit yourself: a short-term solution, maybe, but I would be cautious that it does not become a long-term nuisance.

What worked for me was to deliberately change the timing of breathing: when I started rolling towards air sooner, as soon as my recovering hand entered the water, I had more time to take a nice deep breath. And without breaking the rhythm, I could simply start rolling back with enough air gathered. So I achieved two things that worked for me:
1. more air - which was a relief, because I was battling;
2. better rhythm - basically rhythmically rolling from side to side, and taking a breath every third stroke. And being bigger has its advantages. I'm not as big as artreides, but still 6'3" and 210 lbs. So we can "throw around our weight somewhat and gain nice momentum.

It did take me about four one-hour sessions' deliberate effort to imprint it somewhat. But I now breathe comfortably on both sides, and can keep it up for 3 x 500m sets.

At least I'm not that discouraged anymore. I've got new issues to focus on, such as rolling maybe too far: I way exceed the one-goggle-in-the-water level, I think. We're not allowed cameras or any video equipment at the pool where I swim, so I can't see myself. But I'm quite sure. So, I should work on my rhythmic rolling to not roll that far for air. But one step (breath) at a time.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2009
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atreides View Post
Yes that is exactly what I mean. ...
Remember, I swim 25 meters just fine and will swim 50 meters and survive it but after that all bets are off. I'll do 300 or 400 meters a session with plenty of rest between laps normally. So where do I start?
I could underline every single word.
The 25m I do quite well because I do the first breath in the middle at stroke eight or nine and then I only breathe one or two more times. I could probably go through the 25m without breathing at all.
For 50 m this doesn't work and after 40-45m I am close to be finished and need a real good break at the end.
I am always very short-winded when I begin my swim session and it gets better during the swim. Is this a common observation?

I drill balance and nodding drill. With balance I mean not rotating too far or too less. I find it not so easy to hit the right amount of rotation. Better balance makes it easier for me to breathe.
The nodding drill is very good. But it takes a lot of time: I have done nodding and breathing drills for at least 15 hours now and it is a lot better, but not so easy that I can swim a longer distance.

Takes time, I guess.

But I certainly do breathe not as often as I actually need to, I kind of avoid the struggle.

Related to that: Lot of folks here say you have to breathe out always. Everybody repeats that. I noticed: It doesn't matter if I breathe out right away or hold my breath for a while and then start breathing out - when I finish breathing out I have to take a breath immediately, I really have to. If I don't breath out but hold my breath for a long time, then breathe out slowly, I can swim much longer without breathing.
??

Last edited by haschu33 : 11-14-2009 at 08:03 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2009
gerz gerz is offline
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I breath out immediately when my head goes under water and keep breathing out all the time my head is immersed (breathing every other stroke). As soon as my mouth breaks the surface I open it and breathing in happens by it self (no deliberatively action). I think breathing out during all the underwater-time is very important. The last 20% of air should be blown out while the mouth is breaking the surface. Exactly breathing out is very essential for getting rid of all the C02 in the lungs.

Last edited by gerz : 11-14-2009 at 09:00 PM.
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