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  #11  
Old 07-18-2016
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bx View Post
How to Swim Faster Freestyle. . . with High Legs and Low Drag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW5nE5FBPsQ

Jamie Shaules. Search for his name on this forum for the historical discussion on his ideas.

IIRC the convention is to flatten the back slightly by pulling navel to spine, not the opposite advocated by J. Shaules, extending the lumbar region to pull the hips up.
I queried Shaules directly on that point some years ago. As I recall, he indicated that he planned to reevaluate his stance, which seems to be at odds with "flatten the back, suck in the tummy" advocacy.
Though his more recent links appear to be revisions of earlier material, his "arch the back" admonitions seem unchanged. The consensus here in years past has favored a flatter posture.

Last edited by borate : 07-27-2016 at 12:13 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Even TI swimmers with a badly dropped elbow can do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLRpWAEN0F0
Now swing your head from left to right and tap with your foot to the music while watching....it will make you happy!

On a serious note. Watch how his body bends and straightens on every pull. There is some stomach crunching and correction happening there. Can we call it a very small dolphin kick reaction?

Last edited by Zenturtle : 07-18-2016 at 07:34 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2016
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Even TI swimmers with a badly dropped elbow can do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLRpWAEN0F0
Now swing your head from left to right and tap with your foot to the music while watching....it will make you happy!

On a serious note. Watch how his body bends and straightens on every pull. There is some stomach crunching and correction happening there. Can we call it a very small dolphin kick reaction?
It's easiest to see when you watch his feet.
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
No kick balance and alignment. Rotating the wholoe body from shoulders to toes like a treetrunk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYqQJtcirqQ

What does it take to do it?
I do this all the time, and use it often with my athletes to "expose error" as terry might say. Although beyond his explanation of "how" I think he misses the mark on "why".

I did thsi today with an athlete to stop the legs from being "supportive' as glen says in the video, so that he could focus on correcting balance by improving what was going on with recoveyr and catch...(not by creating more power or swimming faster). And when he added the legs back in they were not propulsive, but rather, rotational (which generates propulsion).

So same basic idea. this is a fantastic drill that Terry first made me aware of on an open water swim camp several years ago. i blieve it's covered in the ultimate freestyle bundle as well
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  #15  
Old 07-23-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Even TI swimmers with a badly dropped elbow can do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLRpWAEN0F0
Now swing your head from left to right and tap with your foot to the music while watching....it will make you happy!

On a serious note. Watch how his body bends and straightens on every pull. There is some stomach crunching and correction happening there. Can we call it a very small dolphin kick reaction?
elbow drop mostly on left side only, right is much better. agree about the bendning, he's putting a little effort into it. I think he strokes at his last possible moment.
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Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #16  
Old 07-24-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Yep, the right side looks better.

Suzanne, the girl has a very treetrunklike body. Little internal movement between shoulders and point of toes. Only static tension.
What do you think drives her rotation here?
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Yep, the right side looks better.

Suzanne, the girl has a very treetrunklike body. Little internal movement between shoulders and point of toes. Only static tension.
What do you think drives her rotation here?

Momentum from the recovering arm and pressure from the stroking arm creating a rotational weight/pressure shift...with static / isometric core contraction limiting bending or twisting
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #18  
Old 07-25-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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OK, assuming this starting situatian, she isnt using hip drive, right?
Lets go to the next step, she has to keep everything just as aligned as before, even feet kept next to each other (like there was an imaginary ankleband), but is allowed to have some internal core action to add hip drive.
Is this possible?
How would you describe the added internal action if it is possible?
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  #19  
Old 07-26-2016
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
OK, assuming this starting situatian, she isnt using hip drive, right?
Lets go to the next step, she has to keep everything just as aligned as before, even feet kept next to each other (like there was an imaginary ankleband), but is allowed to have some internal core action to add hip drive.
Is this possible?
How would you describe the added internal action if it is possible?
I'll venture an answer to this. I think that Charles once referred to this as something like the "Serape effect" or some such thing. Anyway, there's some video of him rotating in circles with his feet together, no kick and his arms extended over his head. He has a pull-buoy between his legs (near his crotch) and he uses the buoyancy of the pull-buoy to initiate the rotation.

In summary, the only way to initiate rotation without pushing against the water with your legs or your arms (and without gravity working on extended limbs) is to use this buoyancy effect. Of course, without the pull-buoy, it is rather minimal and I don't think it would be very effective. I think Suzanne's explanation is the best one.

By the way, the video you posted of a guy who kept his legs together but was moving his feet slightly up and down could have some of this in his stroke. He is breaking his straight axis a small amount during his stroke cycle, and this bent axis, combined with some buoyancy, can produce rotation.

Last edited by Danny : 07-26-2016 at 02:50 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-26-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Quote:
I think Suzanne's explanation is the best one.
Do you mean this one?
Quote:
Momentum from the recovering arm and pressure from the stroking arm creating a rotational weight/pressure shift...with static / isometric core contraction limiting bending or twisting
I like to keep it simple , starting wih a treetrunc with arms. No bending allowed.
If this treetrunk is supplied with a smart core and is alowed to use it without feets separating and without bending, what would be the result?

Last edited by Zenturtle : 07-26-2016 at 06:36 AM.
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