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  #1  
Old 04-30-2015
boyzie boyzie is offline
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Default Engaged core results shock

I normally average 16 strikes in a 25m pool with a very gentle push off. I'm 6'4". Today I actively concentrated on really engaging my core. I was amazed at the results. I dropped my stroke from 16 to 12-13!

AR there any other small changes that people have found that have resulted in improvements like this.
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2015
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Hey Boyzie,

I got similar results which I commented on the Heart Interval Thread. 6'3.5" and 195Ibs. Been doing the 25 yards in 16 to 17 about. After much frustration, I suspected I was excluding my butt in the rotation process ca using drag. I did and dropped to 14.

However, I noticed two days ago to my dismay that I regressed back to 16. Suspect my right side skate is compromised.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyddinma View Post
Hey Boyzie,

I got similar results which I commented on the Heart Interval Thread. 6'3.5" and 195Ibs. Been doing the 25 yards in 16 to 17 about. After much frustration, I suspected I was excluding my butt in the rotation process ca using drag. I did and dropped to 14.

However, I noticed two days ago to my dismay that I regressed back to 16. Suspect my right side skate is compromised.
Very interested in following this up. Could you please give me a reference to how to engage the core and specifically what you mean by excluding your butt from the rotation process.
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2015
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Ideally, you rotate around your axis. In videos, head looks erect and submerged while you rotate your entire torso all the way down to your legs for spearing. It is just enough to clear one shoulder off the surface.

I believe with no one to give me feedback, I was just twisting my torso: shoulder to waistline and barely rotating below region.
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2015
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boyzie View Post
I normally average 16 strikes in a 25m pool with a very gentle push off. I'm 6'4". Today I actively concentrated on really engaging my core. I was amazed at the results. I dropped my stroke from 16 to 12-13!

AR there any other small changes that people have found that have resulted in improvements like this.
lack of core engagement is a big change for most people. the lack of torso stability in daily life has led to lack of it during activity. without it you cannot transmit energy from 2BK foot kick all the way out to the end of the spear. You also do not have a stable base to move your limbs on: legs, arms. The unstable base results in the loss of energy transmitted where you want it to go, and the waste of energy because you need to create more to get the same result. it also results in not using the correct muscles to make movements so injury probability rises.

think of this analogy: try to push a square of jello across the table. when you try, your finger sinks into the soft mass and keeps sinking until you are able to move it. this is the loss of energy that happens in your unstabilized torso. then try to push a pencil across the table. much easier right? the stiff nature of the pencil makes it much easier. same concept.

we are working on sequences to help with developing the right core engagement and torso stability in swimming. stay tuned for those!
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2015
boyzie boyzie is offline
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This has been fascinating thanks for everyone's replies. I look forward to the new work been developed on this subject.
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  #7  
Old 05-05-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyddinma View Post
Ideally, you rotate around your axis. In videos, head looks erect and submerged while you rotate your entire torso all the way down to your legs for spearing. It is just enough to clear one shoulder off the surface.

I believe with no one to give me feedback, I was just twisting my torso: shoulder to waistline and barely rotating below region.
Ah, I gotcha.
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2015
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boyzie View Post
I normally average 16 strikes in a 25m pool with a very gentle push off. I'm 6'4". Today I actively concentrated on really engaging my core. I was amazed at the results. I dropped my stroke from 16 to 12-13!

AR there any other small changes that people have found that have resulted in improvements like this.
Thanks for this--I had been gradually reaching this same feeling without realizing what it was I was doing differently. This thread made me try again with the specific intention of engaging my core--and I swam a personal best 200m, and two personal best 400m repeats today because of it.

For me, the sensation is that I am tucking my pelvis into line, the way you would do to go from an anterior tilted pelvis to a level pelvis (this is from the Chi Running method--exactly the same as trying to run with a good posture and level pelvis to free the hips for easier rotation).

You can see this in a mirror at home--lift and tuck the abdomen until your waist becomes level (most people get lazy with posture and let their pelvis tilt lower in front and higher in back--the anterior pelvic tilt). That level pelvis is the position you want to hold, by engaging the ab muscles with a constant productive tension. Puts the whole spine in line--very helpful!
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
Thanks for this--I had been gradually reaching this same feeling without realizing what it was I was doing differently. This thread made me try again with the specific intention of engaging my core--and I swam a personal best 200m, and two personal best 400m repeats today because of it.
Your times were PBs; did you feel more tired or more exhausted after doing this? Did any of your muscle groups feel over used afterwords?
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  #10  
Old 05-07-2015
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
Your times were PBs; did you feel more tired or more exhausted after doing this? Did any of your muscle groups feel over used afterwords?
I swam these without any conscious intention to swim harder or faster, just to tuck/level my pelvis by tightening my abs, and the faster times just happened. It felt different, and better. A fairly casual 2BK, going for a pace on the 400s that I think I might be able to sustain on my 10-miler. I dropped from a 2:57 to 2:55 200m, and from 6:48 to a 6:44, then a 6:38 400m.

But then, I have not done an all-out 200m or 400m to test what my real PB is--I think I will be routinely doing them faster as my training goes on. I've been holding back on speed in my swimming, I think, with those 10 long miles always in mind (I almost never get a 50m under :40 these days); and these repeats came near the end of a 4000m session.

I didn't have any soreness of my abs afterward--but I do engage those muscles when I run (3 x week) and do yoga, so it wasn't turning on a new muscle (which might lead to soreness). I had just never mindfully and intentionally engaged them while swimming.
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