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  #1  
Old 08-26-2009
gooner gooner is offline
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gooner
Default The TI Glide?

Was swimming today and in the lane next to me was somebody clearly doing TI drills. A rarity here in Melbourne. I spent some time watching him swimming whole stroke and he looked like the classic TI swimmer that non-TI swimmers criticise. Over-rotating, painfully slow (very disjointed) and lots and lots of gliding.
I was in two minds whether to speak to him about his stroke but decided against it for the time being (I hate it when others do it to me).
It got me thinking though about the place of the much criticised glide in TI freestyle. As someone who has spent about 4 years with TI swimming 4 times a week yet never had a coach I feel I am in a good position to speak for the majority of TI students who learn only from he books, dvds and forum.
When I started swimming TI I had a very pronounced glide in my stroke, probably as a result of an over emphasis on low SR.
Over the last two years, especially as a result of Easy Freestyle DVD, I have eliminated these deadspots and am swimming with more rhythm, fluidity and pace.
There seems to be a bit of debate on this forum as to whether there is a pronounced glide in TI freestyle and it would be nice for it to be cleared up.
My feeling is that there should not be. It may seem like there is a glide compared to the those of the thrashing about school but there should not be a dead-spot in skate position. Ones hand should constantly be moving, however slowly, from catch to recovery. As the man says its Perpetual Motion Freestyle. It was this notion that helped greatly with my timing and started me on the road to speed.
It seems to me that many people who learn TI from the books, especially the yellow one (I know its outdated but it's still my favourite) put a huge emphasis on lowest SPL possible to the detriment of their swimming. I was working on a SPL of 28 for 50m until I read the latest book and realised that that was too low. Now I have a focused SPL of 30, an interval SPL of 33 and a speed SPL of 36/38.
Any thoughts on the glide?
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2009
Flailing Like Mad Flailing Like Mad is offline
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Flailing Like Mad
Default

Just to go off on a tangent, there is actually a TI coach in Kensington, Thursday mornings. My boss has swam in his squad a couple of times, and I've swam at the pool a few times too. Though never had one of his lessons.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2009
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
Default whether to pick 'em apart or NOT to? do or do not What to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gooner View Post
.
Over-rotating,
painfully slow (very disjointed)
and lots and lots of gliding.


I was in two minds
whether to speak to him about his stroke
but decided against it for the time being

(I hate it when others do it to me).
Any thoughts
on the glide?

Just thinkin....
on this a while...
Is it Right or even polite...

to talk to someONE
about how's their swimming?
proper, polite, or what to do!

My daughter says "read their body language "
readin' it right?.... DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM....
She seems to be right?


just
throwin my thoughts
your way,

Pat


should I talk about your swimmin'?
too much to think about and
change!


oohh
the glide
...

pull
kick
glide....

do NOT leave it out of the equation!
many do!
I would NOT want to do that!

would you?
so learn to love to glide................
(i think) is the answer to your question

Last edited by splashingpat : 08-26-2009 at 04:27 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-26-2009
inca inca is offline
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Posts: 88
inca
Default

[quote=splashingpat;5478]Just thinkin....
on this a while...
Is it Right or even polite...

to talk to someONE
about how's their swimming?
QUOTE]


My take on this is that I love when people comment on my swimming (or attempts to swim =D ) because I feel that I need all the help I can get. Then depending on what they say, I decide whether to "take it or leave it." I am always interested in feedback because it helps me know what I really look like in the water, as opposed to what I "think" I look like, i.e it helps me put together what I "feel" with what is actually happening.

Having said that, I hate when people not only comment and/or give advice, but actually question or make me defend what I am doing (attempting to do =D). Or, won't leave me alone when I clearly have had enough (or more than enough!).
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2009
atreides atreides is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
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atreides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooner View Post
Was swimming today and in the lane next to me was somebody clearly doing TI drills. A rarity here in Melbourne. I spent some time watching him swimming whole stroke and he looked like the classic TI swimmer that non-TI swimmers criticise. Over-rotating, painfully slow (very disjointed) and lots and lots of gliding.
I was in two minds whether to speak to him about his stroke but decided against it for the time being (I hate it when others do it to me).
It got me thinking though about the place of the much criticised glide in TI freestyle. As someone who has spent about 4 years with TI swimming 4 times a week yet never had a coach I feel I am in a good position to speak for the majority of TI students who learn only from he books, dvds and forum.
When I started swimming TI I had a very pronounced glide in my stroke, probably as a result of an over emphasis on low SR.
Over the last two years, especially as a result of Easy Freestyle DVD, I have eliminated these deadspots and am swimming with more rhythm, fluidity and pace.
There seems to be a bit of debate on this forum as to whether there is a pronounced glide in TI freestyle and it would be nice for it to be cleared up.
My feeling is that there should not be. It may seem like there is a glide compared to the those of the thrashing about school but there should not be a dead-spot in skate position. Ones hand should constantly be moving, however slowly, from catch to recovery. As the man says its Perpetual Motion Freestyle. It was this notion that helped greatly with my timing and started me on the road to speed.
It seems to me that many people who learn TI from the books, especially the yellow one (I know its outdated but it's still my favourite) put a huge emphasis on lowest SPL possible to the detriment of their swimming. I was working on a SPL of 28 for 50m until I read the latest book and realised that that was too low. Now I have a focused SPL of 30, an interval SPL of 33 and a speed SPL of 36/38.
Any thoughts on the glide?
I went back an watched Shinji's video and he glides for sure. But the gliding is a natural product of his recovery as it is with TI swimmers. I think the only difference is that TI emphasizes streamlining so that while you are recovering you will make the most of it. Greater SR will cut down the glide phase and there is nothing wrong with that if all out speed is your objective. But if efficiency is your objective then you will glide. Now if your point is that it actually takes more energy to regain lost velocity as opposed to stroking more frequently, then I think that's accurate. So maybe there's a tradeoff between gliding and SR that produces maximum efficiency (the greatest distance with least amount of energy expended). I don't think that gliding under that premise is bad. But if you want greater speed, then you will sacrifice some efficiency. Ultimately it is what you want.
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2009
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
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As I become a better swimmer, I glide much less.

I can swim 25 yards in 10 strokes with an absurdly long glide, over-sized kick and powerful over-rotation. However, I prefer 13-14 SPL for easy swimming with some glide and 15 - 17 SPL with a faster SR, early arm exit, and much less glide for fast swimming.

I find that starting my recovery earlier, at the waistline of my swimsuit, is the best way to increase my stroke rate and, thereby, reduce glide.

RadSwim
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2009
gooner gooner is offline
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Maybe there is some confusion between a patient catch and a glide. I think of a glide as a moment in the stroke where nothing is moving. Maybe I sjould refer to it as a dead spot.
You can stay in skating position with your arm very very slowly performing the catch. I would not call this a glide. I think it would also be difficult to see on video.
I have no doubt that if I watched a tape of myself it would appear as if I was gliding. The point is that I am making a concious effort to have a continuos stroke . The question I have is should you make a conscious decision to glide.
I still think introducing these dead spots into your stroke ruins rhythm and momentum.
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2009
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
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RadSwim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooner View Post
Maybe there is some confusion between a patient catch and a glide.
Two sides of the same coin. Either your arm is hanging out front or it isn't, no matter what you call it.

If you are a front-quadrant swimmer, at a slow - moderate pace, your leading arm will be hanging out front for part of the stroke cycle. This is nothing to be ashamed of; it conserves energy.

RadSwim
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2009
gooner gooner is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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gooner
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadSwim View Post
Two sides of the same coin. Either your arm is hanging out front or it isn't, no matter what you call it.

If you are a front-quadrant swimmer, at a slow - moderate pace, your leading arm will be hanging out front for part of the stroke cycle. This is nothing to be ashamed of; it conserves energy.

RadSwim
I would consider a glide where you are in skate position and are not moving your arm at all. In a patient catch you would be.
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