Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07-08-2013
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
... I have the sense that swimming causes a rather steep drop in my blood pressure (which I am taking medication for) and when that happens, the low blood pressure tires me out ... I did do the measurement today and saw a steep drop as expected...
You must know this already Danny but imho this is a query for a cardio specialist rather than here, but I would be very interested to hear what you discover. You know the dangers of low-blood pressure.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-10-2013
Danny Danny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,442
Danny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
You must know this already Danny but imho this is a query for a cardio specialist rather than here, but I would be very interested to hear what you discover. You know the dangers of low-blood pressure.
Talvi, thanks for your concern, but I wouldn't worry. My blood pressure fluctuates within normal bounds for a healthy person. It is standard for anyone to see a drop in blood pressure after exercise. This comes from dilation of the capillary system in the skin to dissipate the heat that is generated, among other things. The question here is whether the drop I see in swimming is greater than in, say, running, and, if so, whether this explains the onset of fatigue. All hard questions that require more data than I have the time or inclination to gather. I was hoping that someone else might have done the hard work for me.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-11-2013
Scotty Scotty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 83
Scotty
Default Swimming is unique

I think that linking thermal issues to being exhausted after swimming is not necessarily valid. I have biked and ran in cold weather (sub-freezing) but still don't experience the same fatigue as I do in swimming.

So let me put forth four theories.

1. Swimming uses more muscles than biking and running. Activating the arms, the core, and the legs instead of just the legs must account for some of the fatigue.

2. I personally hit my "stride" in running much sooner than I do in swimming. By stride, I mean a slowing of pulse and breathing which can be sustained for the remainder of the run.

3. Oxygen intake is limited during swimming to that quick and efficient gulp of air. Exhaling must also be done rather quickly. Perhaps that type of breathing takes more energy. At least in biking and running you have some downhill stretches when you can grab that long deep breath.

4. Mental focus contributes to energy exertion. Balance is not an issue in running and hardly an issue in biking. But in swimming it's a big deal. There are so many "movable parts" in swimming from hand entry, rotation, timing of breath, and they all need to be adjusted during a swim. So I think brain fatigue is an issue.

5. I hate to bring this up, but a remote fear of drowning, no matter how deeply buried in my gray matter, might bring some element of anxiety to the swim. When I'm near the end of a long swim I sometimes get anxieties about making it to the other side. This is completely irrational since I know I could float on my back or more practically just stand up, so there would be no fatal consequences. But still..

Looking forward to hearing other reactions.

Scott
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-12-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,244
CharlesCouturier
Default

In total agreement
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-12-2013
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 50
rcrawf
Default

Interesting.
__________________
finflappinflounder
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-12-2013
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty View Post
So let me put forth four theories.

1. Swimming uses more muscles ....

2. I personally hit my "stride" in running much sooner than I do in swimming....

3. Oxygen intake is limited during swimming ....

4. Mental focus ....

5. ... a remote fear of drowning, ....
I think these are spot on Scott.

Item 3 is linked to item 2 imo. When you hit your stride you can keep going - until cold/exhaustion in general set in, in the same way as for any other physical activity, so logically oxygen needs must be being satisfied. Before hitting that stride I think there is a huge overexpenditure of energy. I feel that breathing demands more force in swimming, the water pressure and the gulping. I can feel my ribs (not chest muscles) ache the day after a good swim.

I also think 4 and 5 are linked and that they inform number 2 as well. The mental focus is most apparent/most draining for me when trying to "hit my stride", once I get into loping along it becomes something much calmer and more akin to jogging. The drowning "fear" goes - returning as you say when I get focused on reaching the other side instead of just floating and sculling along. I find that if at this point I really relax, try to lie on top of the water like on a bed, and stop having any intention to cover any ground, I'm home in no time.

The cold is a problem for me though. My body temp drops a lot, even in quite warm water (out of water too), so I need to be reasonably wary of it which complicates the above a bit :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
Talvi, thanks for your concern, but I wouldn't worry. My blood pressure fluctuates within normal bounds for a healthy person.
You said you were taking medication for your condition. That isn't normal. If the meds "make you normal" that's something quite different in my opinion.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov

Last edited by Talvi : 07-12-2013 at 10:25 AM. Reason: energy for breathing itself
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-12-2013
Danny Danny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,442
Danny
Default

These are all interesting possible explanations for why swimming tires us out. But what about this question? For me, the onset of fatigue is delayed. That is, when I get out of the pool I feel fine. I takes something like a half hour or an hour before I realize how tired I am. Has anyone else noticed this? If so, what possible explanations can you offer for the delay in onset?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-13-2013
Grant Grant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sooke, BC. Canada
Posts: 581
Grant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
These are all interesting possible explanations for why swimming tires us out. But what about this question? For me, the onset of fatigue is delayed. That is, when I get out of the pool I feel fine. I takes something like a half hour or an hour before I realize how tired I am. Has anyone else noticed this? If so, what possible explanations can you offer for the delay in onset?
Hi Danny. I have no explanation. I have similar happenings. I feel great getting out of the pool and have breakfast about 30 minutes later. This is a protein drink with lots of flax and hemp oils as well as yogurt and ground up nuts and seeds. I also have a smaller protein drink before swimming (6:00 AM). About an hour after swimming I experience significant tiredness and at first I tried to distract myself by doing stuff. Eventually I started having a sleep when the tiredness set in and I can now sleep for 1.5 to 2 hours before awakening refreshed. As I am retired and 78 years old this works for me, but the so called work ethic does its dance.
__________________
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
Grant
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-13-2013
Talvi Talvi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Posts: 1,675
Talvi
Default

As a starting point this may be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycoge...rance_exercise There are a couple of dodgy statements in it, these have been identified, but the rest seems to me to be a sound summary of the systems involved.

We aren't machines though so different combionations of age, fitness, metabolic functioning, etc will impact these "equations" to greater or lesser extent.

Personally, I found the problem of tiredness ith skiing first. It would hit the next day preventing me from skiing as much as I wanted. Eating more addressed that. However, while I look fit, I had "let my condition go" for several decades beforehand so now I find overall that my condition improves but slowly and that I am quite injury prone.
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-13-2013
Danny Danny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,442
Danny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talvi View Post
As a starting point this may be helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycoge...rance_exercise There are a couple of dodgy statements in it, these have been identified, but the rest seems to me to be a sound summary of the systems involved.

We aren't machines though so different combionations of age, fitness, metabolic functioning, etc will impact these "equations" to greater or lesser extent.

Personally, I found the problem of tiredness ith skiing first. It would hit the next day preventing me from skiing as much as I wanted. Eating more addressed that. However, while I look fit, I had "let my condition go" for several decades beforehand so now I find overall that my condition improves but slowly and that I am quite injury prone.
Talvi, I am only too familiar with glycogen depletion, because I am diabetic. The symptoms of glycogen depletion are basically what happens to people when they get a low blood sugar due to too much insulin. They are also classic symptoms of what happens to marathon runners in the late stages of 26 miles. However, my experience with glycogen depletion indicates that the symptoms occur immediately, as soon as your sugar levels get low. So I don't think that this explains the delayed onset of fatigue. In addition, I get enough exercise in different ways (running, biking, hiking) so that I don't think swimming for an hour at a relaxed pace can deplete my glycogen stores. To me, the delayed onset of fatigue is still very mysterious.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.