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  #1  
Old 01-26-2012
tab tab is offline
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Default Next stroke: Butterfly

I am about to attempt a move into butterfly. My understanding is that butterfly came about from breast stroke. And so, I want to transcend into fly from the breast stroke. I can easily replace the frog kick with a dolphin kick but what I don't see is where the two kicks in fly work into the mix? Am I right one kick is stronger and one weaker. I have been told it is a rhythmic stoke, I am looking for the rhythm.
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Old 01-26-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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Hi Tab
There are several approaches.
What has been taught for ages is the two kick per stroke style. Kick your hands in, kick your hands out. Some advocate kicking the hands out to be the stronger one, while others say the kick your hands in should be the stronger. I think the majority say the former.
Several years ago Terry worked on developing a model that would enable most swimmers to swim the Butterfly for distance. In this model which is laid out in his Buttlefly DVD the swimmer just uses one kick per stroke. That is kicking the hands in and emphasis on landing forward, not down. Many other fine points as well.
As in other strokes he has broken the stroke down and progresses the learner thru stages that facilitates the creation of a relatively tireless smooth stroke.
Hope you enjoy the ride. When one gets into the rythum it is a joy to experience.
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  #3  
Old 01-26-2012
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I feel like it is a word on the tip of my tongue and I can't just reach it, but it will come to me. I will try the kick in and kick out. The thing with the breast stroke/fly I am missing is the key hole stroke with the arms, I feel like I am sinking too far into the water.

I will look into the dvd.
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Old 01-26-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab View Post
I feel like it is a word on the tip of my tongue and I can't just reach it, but it will come to me. I will try the kick in and kick out. The thing with the breast stroke/fly I am missing is the key hole stroke with the arms, I feel like I am sinking too far into the water.

I will look into the dvd.
You are not missing anything. The shpe underwater is less important than finding flow. Flow comes from gravity and buoyancy and timing body movements with the natural forces. Kick in, kick out, keyhole is outside in thinking. Gravity, buoyancy and support are inside out thinking and help both fly and breast feel almost effortless.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2012
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I made it to the pool today, a dreary, wet, damp, rainy winter day, the pool was nice.

I tried one armed fly, after attempting two arms. I found the one arm much easier to fiddle with. Breathing to the side, dragging one thumb in the water with a stiff straight arm and relaxed wrist. I was able to actually feel the kick in and out of the water, as mentioned and it had a fluid motion to it, although my daughter said I still looked a little stiff. Really odd to tell my body to do something new. A very relaxing feeling, actually, I could almost keep going, but I like to stop and reflect.

Thanks for the comments.
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Old 01-28-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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A couple of focus points that have helped me.
When the arms are swinging to the front with palms paralell to the water, do not have them come close together in front of the head. Rather have them enter in front of the shoulders with palms flat or facing down. Feel you are moving ahead not down.
Do not start the catch until you feel the body rising to the surface due to its buoyancy.
When breathing keep the head in line with the body. A head sticking upward destroys the flow. The breath happens when the mouth is just above the water and parallel to it.
The coaches can add so much more. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-28-2012
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As of now, I am told my body comes too far out of the water, trying to breath, but with the one arm and my head to the side I can stay closer to the surface. I am keeping in mind I should breath looking straight down or a little forward, but I am not there yet.

Hand placement, palm down not thumb first? Reason for this?
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  #8  
Old 01-28-2012
Grant Grant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab View Post
As of now, I am told my body comes too far out of the water, trying to breath, but with the one arm and my head to the side I can stay closer to the surface. I am keeping in mind I should breath looking straight down or a little forward, but I am not there yet.

Hand placement, palm down not thumb first? Reason for this?
With the palm down there is much less stress on the shoulder joint.
The Butterfly DVD has very good step by step drills that if learned will have one looking down and getting a breath very easily. I do not get a commission :o)
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab View Post
Hand placement, palm down not thumb first? Reason for this?
Less internal rotation of the shoulder joint = less likelyhood of rotator cuff impingment.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #10  
Old 01-28-2012
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That's what I thought.

This is similar to freestyle and swimmers that enter their hand thumb first, causing the same problem. In TI freestyle we have the choice to insert the hand into the mail slot, nice and clean, very few bubbles. This does not apply to the butterfly? Your hand has to flop on top of the water or am I missing something.
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