Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-13-2011
neilaro neilaro is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
neilaro
Default First video post... feedback?

Hi all,

I've finally found a training buddy and was able to try out my Panasonic Lumix camera with underwater video capability. We're still working on our videography skills! I should put these short videos into one longer one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5a3puOrjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgHAeYE7Xes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgHAeYE7Xes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KljSHmUB5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se4XI07saww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtTg4an_RlU

The first thing I noticed was that my left arm (breathing side) enters the water earlier and steeper than the right, and I appear to over-rotate to the left as a consequence. I'm now working on bilateral breathing to help achieve more symmetry in my stroke, as well as finding the "just enough" rotation. I thought I also might be too deep in the water, which would require me to roll further to breathe. Swimming closer to the surface has made a difference.

Second, I didn't realize how erratic my kick was. I've since been focused on pointing my toes more, keeping both legs drafting behind the body, and feeling the kick initiated more from the hips (I tend to bend at the knees, especially on the left side).

I've also started training with a Tempo Trainer, which I thought I'd hate. I actually really enjoy using it, and it is helping me coordinate my stroke between beeps.

Any comments would be appreciated.

cheers,
Neil
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-13-2011
borate borate is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 533
borate
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilaro View Post
I appear to over-rotate to the left as a consequence. Second, I didn't realize how erratic my kick was.
Solid observations...
I sense some over-rotation and excessive kick windup at the knees.

Try not to cock the head as much when breathing, but instead look to the side and slightly back, with a 'Popeye" mouth - to catch a bite of air.

Balance and arm-placement seem fine. With increased speed you may find that the lead hand will be less patient - perhaps 3/4 catch up and less glide.

Last edited by borate : 07-13-2011 at 02:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-13-2011
neilaro neilaro is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
neilaro
Default the catch

Hi Borate,

Thanks for your advice. I have been wondering about the timing of the catch. I've noticed on expert videos that the catch does initiate earlier, whereas I always wait until the recovery arm fingers start to enter the water. That is how I drilled it from the very start, so it is strongly imprinted.

Is it a question of anticipating the catch, perhaps so that the strongest phase (acceleration) happens in coordination with the kick and spearing arm? I watched a video by DistanceDave on High Elbow Catch, and my understanding is that the lead arm starts to bend to a right angle as the body rotates.

I will try to get some video of faster SR, which I've been working on recently with the Tempo Trainer.

Neil
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-13-2011
mjm mjm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 229
mjm
Default Feet together

Neil: as a focal point try swimming with your feet together and kicking gently. mjm
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scissor kick 1.jpg (15.3 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg scissor kick 2.jpg (12.5 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by mjm : 07-14-2011 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-17-2011
neilaro neilaro is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
neilaro
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjm View Post
Neil: as a focal point try swimming with your feet together and kicking gently. mjm
Thanks, I have been focusing on my legs more. The biggest challenge I have is with bilateral breathing. I'm much more comfortable breathing on the left.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-17-2011
mjm mjm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 229
mjm
Default

Interesting prioritizing of skill aquisition, Neil, bi-lateral breathing. Some would consider that an advanced skill. One of my favorite TI coaches, BobW, says simply minimize drag, maximize effective propulsion. If you can't minimize drag, then much of your propulsion is wasted.

Scissor kick is a high drag position. It's like dragging a parachute behiind you. Many swimmers scissor kick because they over-rotate while breathing. So they scisssor kick to regain balance and to rotate from one side lying position to the other. One of my favorite drills is to skate on my left side, roll to breathe, then rotate to my right side side--not using a scissor kick--but hip and torso muscles and light kicking while keeping my feet together.

Sometimes I swim with a band around my ankles. When I started swimming with a band my feet would want to separate at certain times but, of course, the band prevented that. It's difficult but worthwhile in my opinion.

So Neil work on whatever you like and whatever order you like. Or take the advice of Coach BobW, minimize drag, maximize effective propulsion. mjm

Last edited by mjm : 07-17-2011 at 05:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-17-2011
neilaro neilaro is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15
neilaro
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjm View Post
Interesting prioritizing of skill aquisition, Neil, bi-lateral breathing. Some would consider that an advanced skill. One of my favorite TI coaches, BobW, says simply minimize drag, maximize effective propulsion. If you can't minimize drag, then much of your propulsion is wasted.

Scissor kick is a high drag position. It's like dragging a parachute behiind you. Many swimmers scissor kick because they over-rotate while breathing. So they scisssor kick to regain balance and to rotate from one side lying position to the other. One of my favorite drills is to skate on my left side, roll to breathe, then rotate to my right side side--not using a scissor kick--but hip and torso muscles and light kicking while keeping my feet together.

Sometimes I swim with a band around my ankles. When I started swimming with a band my feet would want to separate at certain times but, of course, the band prevented that. It's difficult but worthwhile in my opinion.

So Neil work on whatever you like and whatever order you like. Or take the advice of Coach BobW, minimize drag, maximize effective propulsion. mjm
I know that I'm over-rotating to the left, and that in turn is causing other problems, like the scissor kick. I am practicing on reducing the degree of rotation and adjusting my left spearing arm so that it does not go so steep/deep.

I have thought about the band around the ankles, and seriously considering that -- although, my first preference is to correct problems using thoughts and directions, such as thinking about lengthening my torso from finger tip to toe.

As you suggest, scissor-kicking is a symptom. I think that bilateral breathing may help improve my rotation and left-arm balance.

Again, thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

Neil
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-18-2011
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 201
RadSwim
Default

If you are able, spear less deeply. Correct that first. Lots of other problems, such as your scissor kick, will get better with correction of over deep spearing.
RadSwim

Last edited by RadSwim : 07-18-2011 at 02:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2011
Burger Burger is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Burger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadSwim View Post
If you are able, spear less deeply. Correct that first. Lots of other problems, such as your scissor kick, will get better with correction of over deep spearing.
RadSwim
Hi.

What exactly is deep spearing? I have this understanding that spear angle is relative to your natural balance. If you can spear higher without addition effort to artificially balance then its good. but for some, spearing deep make them maintain their natural balance. As I understood it. If your natural balance requires you to spear deep then its acceptable. If your a naturally deep spearer and tries to have a higher spear then additional effort is needed to keep your legs higher, and greater speed or propulsion is required to keep you artificially balanced.

I also want to know if deep spearing is indeed something intrinsic and we have to live with as our natural balance dictate it? Or is it something that can be fixed without increasing propulsion or effort to artificially attain balance?

Last edited by Burger : 07-18-2011 at 08:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-18-2011
CoachBrian CoachBrian is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 138
CoachBrian
Default Chins and Elbows and Feet and Dinnerplates.

You've got lots of really good stuff happening here! You've obviously spent some quality time learning balance, decreasing drag and improving propulsion. Well done! As has been noted, the largest avenue for improvement is to reduce the amount of rotation.

First, one minor thing - during the breath your head is late in coming up to the air. Your chin should move with the shoulder. As the shoulder rises, you chin should move as if tugged along by a string attached to your shoulder. Your local tattoo and piercing shop should be able to help you with that. When your chin moves with the shoulder, yoiu'll find that you can get air sooner, before you start to sink from the over-rotation. Then you can end the rotation earlier.

Elbows are very important in helping limit rotation. At the end of each stroke, yours are coming up instead of swinging out. Practice some ZenSwitch (SwingSwitch). Start in the skate position, elbow molded to the ribs, and with "just enough rotation" to get the shoulder out of the water. Feel the waterline at or near the elbow. Start the recovery by swinging the elbow out rather than up. Visualize your elbow swinging out away from you. Practice until it becomes a habit. Notice how much higher you are in the water when your elbow swings out. Now make it happen during whole stroke. Practice one length at a time (or less) with less breathing so you can imprint the wide swing without the complications of all that unnecessary breathing.

When practicing Skate or any of the other drills, keep your feet moving up and down, rather than sideways. This will also help limit rotation.

Limiting rotation reduces what I call the "Dinnerplate Effect". If you lay a dinnerplate upside down on the surface of the water, it will slowly sink. Turn it on its edge and it will knife through the water becasue it has lost support. When you over rotate you are like the dinnerplate on it's edge, falling through the water. As you sink, you rotate more to get to the air. Some of your next stroke will have to lift you to the surface instead of moving you forward. Now you're rising and falling during each stroke, which often leads to more sinking. Which leads to more rotation and reaching for the air.

Swim and Nod is a good way to learn to breathe with less rotation.
__________________
Need a plan to improve your swimming? See my training plans here.
If you're in the Denver area, contact me for a private lesson - 303-596-4978.
fdscoaching.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.