Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-02-2011
prayerwarrior prayerwarrior is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4
prayerwarrior
Default Flippers

Hi, I was encouraged to use Flippers because my legs are not propelling me forward when I'm trying to kick. At least I don't go backwards anymore YAY, but I am still just staying in one place. I swam for an hour with the flippers today and tried to swim without and I noticed my toes are positioned right and I'm not bending my knee, but I'm still not understanding how to "kick from the hip". Can someone take pity on a novice swimmer and give some advice?

LOL,
Thanks,
PW
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-02-2011
armagh armagh is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 17
armagh
Default

What is the source of the recommendation? Having trained for many years with paddles, buoys, fins/kickboards, I can say they are more difficult to give up than they are to learn to use. The solution in that instance: don't start.

Specifically to flippers (fins?), my TI coach discourages their use because they add artificial propulsion, meaning your stroke practice occurs at a speed not correlated to your ability. I find the challenge of TI one of slowing down, relaxing and reprogramming the circuitry, not accelerating through external means.

But that's just me.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-02-2011
borate borate is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 533
borate
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prayerwarrior View Post
Hi, I was encouraged to use Flippers because my legs are not propelling me forward when I'm trying to kick. <snip> I'm still not understanding how to "kick from the hip."
The primary benefit of the recommended 2-beat TI kick isn't so much propulsion as it is a balance and timing aid.

As with any kick, if it's not done right it can be a drag (literally). See this oft-posted Shinji demo. Check out related freestyle threads, such as this one.

It may help to visualize kicking a ball, or trying to rid the toe of your shoe of a substance you've picked up at the dog park...
'Wind up' by pulling the leg back as you bend the knee slightly. Then, quickly, straighten the leg and point the toes as you kick from the waist/hip.

Last edited by borate : 08-02-2011 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-03-2011
prayerwarrior prayerwarrior is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4
prayerwarrior
Default

Thanks for the video clips, it helps a bit, and the imagery of kicking a ball when swimming. That helps me know what I'm "supposed" to be doing. I will hit the pool again tomorrow morning and possibly afternoon too =) I hope to find a TI coach in my area sometime soon.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-2011
tab tab is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 171
tab
Default

Dog poo... that's a good one.

I use fins, they are short and I snipped off and inch and want to take off more. Or find a very short set. I think Terry aptly called such things aquatic crack. I will take them off and exchange with my son when he swims with us. I find it a welcome feeling once they are off. The fins make it easier to swim, for sure, but I know I am missing the real effects when I use them. I don't kick hard with them, 2bk with my feet are mostly dragging behind, I believe they aid in keeping my legs up even with out kicking. I do a lot of dolphin kicking, too. Sometime I would like to try a mono fin, for fun. Another excuse in most places, in open water I swim, it is rocky and I have soft feet, water shoes, just for getting in and out.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-03-2011
Scotty Scotty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 83
Scotty
Default Three good uses for fins

In my TI journey I have found three positive uses for fins.

1. In my initial exposure to TI, I was unable to make any progress in drills, particularly skating. Fins (Zoomers) allowed me to stay buoyant enough to gain a sense of what it felt like to swim "downhill" and make some forward progress through the water.

2. Kicking with fins using superman glide or a kickboard (two demerits earned) strengthened my ankles and made them more flexible.

3. Fins at poolside provide a convenient and safe storage space for sunglasses, watches, and other items.

For me fins serve the same function as training wheels on a bicycle. They offer comfort and support in the initial learning phase, but to achieve the balance required to ride a bike they need to come off. And once you can ride without the training wheels, you would never think of putting them on again.

Scott
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2011
jpwkeeper jpwkeeper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 39
jpwkeeper
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by armagh View Post
What is the source of the recommendation? Having trained for many years with paddles, buoys, fins/kickboards, I can say they are more difficult to give up than they are to learn to use. The solution in that instance: don't start.

Specifically to flippers (fins?), my TI coach discourages their use because they add artificial propulsion, meaning your stroke practice occurs at a speed not correlated to your ability. I find the challenge of TI one of slowing down, relaxing and reprogramming the circuitry, not accelerating through external means.

But that's just me.
As an aside, Terry recommends using them in the Self Coached video if your kick isn't getting you across the pool during lesson 2 or 3 (or stopping, as to not practice struggle).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-04-2011
armagh armagh is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 17
armagh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpwkeeper View Post
As an aside, Terry recommends using them in the Self Coached video if your kick isn't getting you across the pool during lesson 2 or 3 (or stopping, as to not practice struggle).
Yes, he does, and I tried using a pair of zoomers to that end. I found I am better off without them for exactly the reason my TI instructor cited.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-04-2011
Burger Burger is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Burger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by borate View Post
The primary benefit of the recommended 2-beat TI kick isn't so much propulsion as it is a balance and timing aid.

As with any kick, if it's not done right it can be a drag (literally). See this oft-posted Shinji demo. Check out related freestyle threads, such as this one.

It may help to visualize kicking a ball, or trying to rid the toe of your shoe of a substance you've picked up at the dog park...
'Wind up' by pulling the leg back as you bend the knee slightly. Then, quickly, straighten the leg and point the toes as you kick from the waist/hip.
hi

I have been trying to make my 2bk all more about propulsion than balance. Somewhat like a energetic 2bk to have a glide and with the resulting ample propulsion makes me balance with the forward motion.

Just sharing.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-04-2011
yearn2swim yearn2swim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 32
yearn2swim
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty View Post
For me fins serve the same function as training wheels on a bicycle. They offer comfort and support in the initial learning phase, but to achieve the balance required to ride a bike they need to come off. And once you can ride without the training wheels, you would never think of putting them on again.

Scott
I like the analogy to training wheels. I learned to ride a bike as a teenager without training wheels. After a lot of falling down and pain, I learned to bike. But it took some serious determination. My children started to bike with training wheels with a lot less pain, and they grew out of the training wheels.

I'm currently using Zoomers and a 2 beat kick to work on my breathing. Before this, I was struggling to do balance, kicking, rolling, spearing, and most importantly breathing at the same time. I don't expect to use the fins forever but right now, it's allowing me to make progress with less pain and stress. Eventually, the fins - like the training wheels - will come off. The key is to train with the idea that they will come off eventually.

I have faith this works because I did the same with my backstroke. Thanks to the fins, I can now do a decent 2 beat kick on my back with OK form.

Mike
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.