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  #21  
Old 03-20-2018
CoachJohnnyWiden's Avatar
CoachJohnnyWiden CoachJohnnyWiden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IngeA View Post
The shoulder tap or zipper drill are the only two drills where I ALWAYS had problems with my shoulder. After my experiences I would not recommend that. Both drills lead to a stacked shoulder and can cause an impingement syndrome. I think that's exactly why Coach Jonny liked to have a over water video: to see if the arm swing is wide or if the shoulder is stuck.

But the high spear and early pressing with out stretched arm really can lead to shoulder problems.
So spearing a bit deeper and avoiding an early press can be helpful.
Hello Inge!

Yes, I totally agree with you on this. Avoid this drill!

Also referring to my previous post, these movements are not in line with what you should imprint in your muscle memory to reach the goal of effortless endurance.
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  #22  
Old 04-02-2018
david1swe
 
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So, now I've had some time to practice on the advices given here. Two main focus have been to lower my spear, and change timing of the arms movement. I'm trying to avoid windmilling by waiting to start catch phase until recovery arm reaches shoulder.
Can't really say I've improved in time or level of effort though. I do swim a bit slower now than I did in late February with about equal effort level, yet maybe it's only natural it takes some time adapting to something new.
For one thing, changing timing of arms pull, tend to confuse the timing of the kicking for me. I think this may result in less kicking, legs sinking, causing more drag, a possible reason why I swim slower now.

I'll try and do some more recording when I get to be alone in the pool some day. Then I can also do some over water filming.
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  #23  
Old 04-02-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello David,

Quote:
Can't really say I've improved in time or level of effort though. I do swim a bit slower now than I did in late February with about equal effort level, yet maybe it's only natural it takes some time adapting to something new.
For one thing, changing timing of arms pull, tend to confuse the timing of the kicking for me. I think this may result in less kicking, legs sinking, causing more drag, a possible reason why I swim slower now.
- How did your feeling about your stroke change? No improvemtent too?

- Are your stroke-changings helping to care for your shoulder-joints? (Think that should be the very first reason to go on...)

- Did you work for imprinting the new movements/timings with a TT with time you do still feel as comfortable and shortened that a hundredth one an then?

- How about starting pooltime with some balance-drills (Torpedo, Supermann, Skate) and swimming (nearly) without kick just focussing in holding your legs streamlined?

Best regards,
Werner
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2018
david1swe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello David,



- How did your feeling about your stroke change? No improvemtent too?

- Are your stroke-changings helping to care for your shoulder-joints? (Think that should be the very first reason to go on...)

- Did you work for imprinting the new movements/timings with a TT with time you do still feel as comfortable and shortened that a hundredth one an then?

- How about starting pooltime with some balance-drills (Torpedo, Supermann, Skate) and swimming (nearly) without kick just focussing in holding your legs streamlined?

Best regards,
Werner
Well. The stroke feels good for 50m or 100m, and then I tend to lose focus. But I'm working on it...
Shoulders have been mostly fine recently, but still there are times when left arm disturbs me a bit. For example, when I've tried one arm swimming, I easily get hesistant about left arm, avoiding a proper pull in order to not get hurt. And swimming with paddles can be bothersome, but usually I don't do that.
I'll consider doing some more balance drills too. Often I do a couple of laps with legs crossed, so that I get a feel for how to swim only with arms.
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  #25  
Old 04-02-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello David,

Quote:
Well. The stroke feels good for 50m or 100m, and then I tend to lose focus. But I'm working on it...
Fine! Just take a short stop to reset your focus and ask yourself, what did distract you?

Quote:
Shoulders have been mostly fine recently, but still there are times when left arm disturbs me a bit. For example, when I've tried one arm swimming, I easily get hesistant about left arm, avoiding a proper pull in order to not get hurt. And swimming with paddles can be bothersome, but usually I don't do that.
Hmmm... with shoulder problems (and not only then) you really should forget paddles... exception you're trying to get Terry's drill: Balancing a paddle on your head, swimming and breathing left and right... Even more I'd suggest swimming with fists or even fistgloves will. That will releive your shoulders and teach you a good catch and press. Don't focus to what is called the pull phase. Let your arm drift into a good catch and synchronize your press-phase with your rotation to get a "featherlight" stroke.

Quote:
I'll consider doing some more balance drills too. Often I do a couple of laps with legs crossed, so that I get a feel for how to swim only with arms.
Think crossed legs are a bit too much. Terry's Suggestion: When rotating into left skate position let the right foot press (a little bit) on your left and vice versa. This will bring your legs into streamline and will encourage your core-muscles.

Best regards,
Werner
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david1swe View Post
So, now I've had some time to practice on the advices given here. Two main focus have been to lower my spear, and change timing of the arms movement. I'm trying to avoid windmilling by waiting to start catch phase until recovery arm reaches shoulder.
Can't really say I've improved in time or level of effort though. I do swim a bit slower now than I did in late February with about equal effort level, yet maybe it's only natural it takes some time adapting to something new.
For one thing, changing timing of arms pull, tend to confuse the timing of the kicking for me. I think this may result in less kicking, legs sinking, causing more drag, a possible reason why I swim slower now.

I'll try and do some more recording when I get to be alone in the pool some day. Then I can also do some over water filming.
For a more continuous propultion yiu can try letting the extended lead arm now drop under its own weight to around a 45deg angle (still extended) so when recovery arm reaches shoulder height the lead arm now catches pretty much directly beneath the shoulder
This is 50% catch up timing
Both shoulder will be level inthe horizontal plane
The spear again at this point.
So shoukders will go from 1 forward & 1 back to level (lead arm catch and recovery arm poised)
to the opposite shoulder forward and the other one back

Still maintaining the TI principle of spearing forward and not "pulling"
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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You may find rotation is alot easier with a 50% catch up timing instead of a 3/4 timing
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  #28  
Old 04-05-2018
david1swe
 
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Hello again, Werner

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello David,


- Did you work for imprinting the new movements/timings with a TT with time you do still feel as comfortable and shortened that a hundredth one an then?
I left out this question before because I didn't understand it. Now at least I've found an explanation for the TT abbreviation, but no it's nothing I've ever used. If I understood correctly it's something that helps to count either stroke rate or time per distance.
At times I've been counting strokes per length - and usually I do about 23 strokes per length when I swim in my regular 100 m / 1:35 pace. That would be about 1 stroke per 1,03 second. But that doesn't count the push off from the wall, so the actual stroke rate would be quite a bit higher.
With this new timing I can do 18-20 strokes per length. At least for a while I can do it in about same pace too - but it has taken a bit more effort, so it usually ends up with a slower speed or a higher stroke rate.
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  #29  
Old 04-05-2018
david1swe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello David,


Fine! Just take a short stop to reset your focus and ask yourself, what did distract you?


Hmmm... with shoulder problems (and not only then) you really should forget paddles... exception you're trying to get Terry's drill: Balancing a paddle on your head, swimming and breathing left and right... Even more I'd suggest swimming with fists or even fistgloves will. That will releive your shoulders and teach you a good catch and press. Don't focus to what is called the pull phase. Let your arm drift into a good catch and synchronize your press-phase with your rotation to get a "featherlight" stroke.


Think crossed legs are a bit too much. Terry's Suggestion: When rotating into left skate position let the right foot press (a little bit) on your left and vice versa. This will bring your legs into streamline and will encourage your core-muscles.

Best regards,
Werner
I think the main thing that distracts me is when I'm not able to upkeep the same speed. I've been working quite a lot on the 100 m / 1:35 sec pace, and it annoys me a bit if I have to swim slower than that. It feels like taking a step backwards. But probably it's something that I should accept. And better for shoulders too, not pushing it too hard.

I've added some swimming with fists in my practice too.
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  #30  
Old 04-05-2018
david1swe
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post
For a more continuous propultion yiu can try letting the extended lead arm now drop under its own weight to around a 45deg angle (still extended) so when recovery arm reaches shoulder height the lead arm now catches pretty much directly beneath the shoulder
This is 50% catch up timing
Both shoulder will be level inthe horizontal plane
The spear again at this point.
So shoukders will go from 1 forward & 1 back to level (lead arm catch and recovery arm poised)
to the opposite shoulder forward and the other one back

Still maintaining the TI principle of spearing forward and not "pulling"
I've been trying to do something like that. But practice is usually more difficult than theory. Even if something sounds theoretically good, it's not so easy to practically do it properly...
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