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  #11  
Old 05-16-2013
cs10 cs10 is offline
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cs10
Default The aquatic creatures version

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Here's Hill Taylor showing how it could be done if the rules were changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNb6yxFU9hk
Really beautiful to watch. So were Suzanne's Misty Hyman videos.
By coincidence I got home a little early and watched this and then headed out to sea on my 14' open ocean paddleboard for a hour and a half up wind then downwind paddle just before dark in a strong onshore front to wash off my work day. About 1k out I past a 5' long sea snake which stuck up it's head and followed me stopping when I did then following me again for 10 min swimming a beautiful horizontal version of Hill and Misty. I stopped again and it stared at me for a minuite before diving down in a beautiful vertical version.

Its really worth learning to do. I learned freestyle without doing any exercises other than superman glide just as a brain exercise. I "got away with it" only because I was in the rare position of having no bad habits because I hadn't swum for so long, but confident if I fell off a boat 10k out to sea I would have made it in. and from other things I have done having Charles prerequisets of proprioception, flexibility feel for water and neuromuscular specific adaption. I've always had a kaizen approach to things and appreciated beautiful movement. I was also only afraid of the water when it had chlorine in it.

I've started to learn butterfly and have the dvd. I'll go 100% opposite this time . The dolphin movement is the first exercise and I could happily do that for years.

I have a friend who had 5 blackbelts in different martial arts by his early 20's then become dissatisfied and spent 20 years in an intense study of the energy side. He showed me various spinal energy exercises that connect you with the 5 elements. Butterfly is the aquatic version of the water element exercise and the air element. Freestyle more like the fire. Breaststroke like earth. Backstroke a combination of earth and fire. The spirit element exercise is a spinning like the whirling dervishes so if you're doing that you have an extreme problem with over rotation. Over all even a short swim of all the strokes reconnects you with nature and all the elements.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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caronis
Default Aqua Fins & Center-Mounted Snorkel?

Thanks everyone for the Thoughtful Replies!....I learned some things I hadn't known before....

I suppose that ,based on my brief research, the fastest underwater dolphin is not faster than the other strokes...with the exception for BACKSTROKE! Which is why it was such a distinct advantage for Berkoff....Please correct me if I'm wrong with this assumption.

I also found a great Youtube series by GoSwim for learning how to swim the underwater dolphin. I won't paste the link here, but I'm sure you can find it on Youtube if you're interested in it.

My question is if anyone here has tried the fins in the video series. They are Aqua Fins by Aqua Sphere....Even though TI is not in favor of fins, I am curious if they are worthwhile enough to use while learning the underwater dolphin kick? I have tried a Monofin in the past, but didn't like it.....These Aqua Fins are in the shape of a foot and I wonder if they would help coax me along in developing fine technique for the UDK.

Also....I am wondering if anyone can suggest a good snorkel for use just in the learning of the UDK, not the other strokes like Freestyle......I'm not sure if these snorkels that have a center-mount and curl back towards the head would be good with my head going underwater most of the time.....Any suggestions on a snorkel that would be perfect for the learning the UDK?
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2013
cs10 cs10 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caronis View Post
.

Also....I am wondering if anyone can suggest a good snorkel for use just in the learning of the UDK, not the other strokes like Freestyle......I'm not sure if these snorkels that have a center-mount and curl back towards the head would be good with my head going underwater most of the time.....Any suggestions on a snorkel that would be perfect for the learning the UDK?

Finis make a range of centre mounted snorkels with different tips available.
They have a range of fins too. Generally the stiffer ones are faster and more expensive and rely on you already having a good technique and some are meant to be resistive to develop the muscles used.
The cheaper softer more forgiving one's are fine to learn, though I'm not sure whether they help you learn or just increase speed. Finis have video examples on their website.

There have been some super high tech ones developed, costing a few thousand dollars which are super fast when used by an expert. There is a video of a champion ,starting deep under water and leaping completely out of the water like a dolphin.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Default

A donkey question here:
How do you avoid the water from entering the nose during the UDK?
I tried this in the past, I felt ok with the body action but I couldnt avoid getting water into my nose. Whats the trick?
If I actively block the water by applying pressure inside the nose, then the O2 is not going through the body and I lose my breathing quickly. If I do nothing, then I have enough 02 but the water penetrating the nose are finishing me off and I must stop. Any help?
Thanks
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you must be a donkey before you become a dolphin.

Last edited by swimust : 05-30-2013 at 06:09 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi swimust

There are two main methods of keeping the water out of your nose while doing the inverted dolphin kick. The first is to exhale constantly through the nose and you can see this in action in lots of videos of top swimmers. The second is to block the nostrils, which some do by rolling the upper lip back to cover them, and the other way to do this, and a simpler one in my opinion, is to wear a nose clip. You may find it uncomfortable at first but you will get used to it. I never wear a nose clip in races but always in practice, both for face down and face up swimming. You will see a lot of elite backstrokers wearing nose clips.

I no longer suffer from sinusitis and sneezing after swimming since I decided to use a nose clip.
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  #16  
Old 05-31-2013
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caronis View Post
I've heard that there was a backstroke swimmer who was setting world records by swimming most of the distance doing the Underwater-Backward Dolphin Kick?....and that new rules had to be implemented to limit how far swimmers go underwater before reaching the surface to stroke....
I've heard that the 15m limit was imposed because people were afraid that somebody was going to overdo the underwater dolphin and drown. The 15m limit applies, btw, regardless of whether the pool length is 50m, 25m, or 25y.

Quote:
To me it seems that if this is true, then the name of the Freestyle stroke should be renamed the forward crawl because freestyle should mean that you can swim anyway you want.....

Technically speaking, there is no such thing as a "freestyle stroke". Freestyle is a competitive event in which you can swim any stroke you want, unless it's part of a medley, in which case it has to be a different stroke than the other 3 in the medley. I was once at a meet in which the only event they had longer than 100y was 200y Freestyle, and a guy who wanted to do 200y Individual Medley swam it in the 200y Freestyle event. He wasn't disqualified, because it's perfectly legal to do that, as long as you surface within 15m after the start and after each turn.

The danger in calling the stroke "forward crawl" (or any other name) is that, because it's only swum in competitions as freestyle, there are no fixed rules about how to do it.


Bob
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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So, any option except nose clips? I must be missing something... :(
The water keeps getting into my nose. I lose oxygen quickly if I try to fight the water with inner pressure in my nose.
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  #18  
Old 06-03-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs10 View Post
Finis make a range of centre mounted snorkels with different tips available.
They have a range of fins too.

There have been some super high tech ones developed, costing a few thousand dollars which are super fast when used by an expert. There is a video of a champion ,starting deep under water and leaping completely out of the water like a dolphin.
I picked up those Aqua Fins and I tried them out....I don't like them. I have tried a Monofin before too, and didn't like it either....In a way I'm circling back to the TI philosophy of "Ditch the Fins".

I picked up from Finis the center mounted snorkel. I may keep this, however, I need to pick up from them one of those filters that prevents water from easily coming from the top....I already had another snorkel where the hose clipped to the goggle strap and went to the side of the head rather than the center....I think this one works almost as well, but perhaps it causes an uneven buoyancy to occur. It's hard to tell.....

By the way, cs10, do you have a link you can post regarding the video where the swimmer leaps out of the water like a dolphin?
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  #19  
Old 06-03-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
I've heard that the 15m limit was imposed because people were afraid that somebody was going to overdo the underwater dolphin and drown. The 15m limit applies, btw, regardless of whether the pool length is 50m, 25m, or 25y.
Bob
This makes perfect sense to me....there certainly could be accidental drownings occurring during practice because of this.

Also....I was reviewing this a bit, it doesn't seem as though the UDK is as advantageous as I thought....It's faster than the backstroke and breast stroke, but not the butterfly and freestyle. At least for now! ....Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Check out this link. Somebody had posted the swim, but didn't include the details. Hill Taylor, aka Dolphin Man, just set the world record for Backstroke if he hadn't been disqualified. 23.1 seconds is super fast and is a world record for swimming on your back.

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/201...ke-underwater/


Does anyone know how fast someone has swum 50 M doing the Underwater Dolphin on their stomach and how that compares to the Freestyle World Record?
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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caronis
Default Science Explains it All!

I found this article last week and wanted to post a link to it.

This article is from Popular Science and attempts to explain how the Dolphin Kick works......

http://www.popsci.com/how-it-works/a...s-dolphin-kick

I'm not sure if I believe that it explains it for all swimmers.....I watch people do this in videos and it does seem that most of the propulsion comes from the feet. Which is why I think someone with large feet gets extra boost from their kick.....but I see some people slightly move their upper body too.....so it might be too simplistic to say just focus on your feet....or even to say focus from the core down.....I think different body types might have to adjust the movement, the tempo, and the effort of the kick.

I find it difficult for me to pin down how best to do this for myself.....I get a thrust forward when I kick down, but as soon as I kick back up to begin a second kick down, I briefly stop or at least slow down alot......If I can keep the flow going then I'd be doing this fairly fast....but I slow down in between thrusts down.....

Anyone have suggestions for me? Perhaps I need to adjust my expectations on this and figure that it's in no way going to equal the speed of my other strokes and that it's best application is helping me to do the Butterfly better.
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