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  #1  
Old 03-10-2012
Rafterman45 Rafterman45 is offline
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Rafterman45
Default Stroke mechanics

Ok, so this seems like a stupid question, but I cant seem to find a definitive answer. I am by no means a swimmer, I ran track instead. I've been watching the TI DVD and I'm trying to understand what path my hands should take through the water. I notice that terry does a sort of palm to belly "S" shape and I'm trying to figure out what i should do. I seem to do a full extension from the shoulder similar to a paddle wheel on a river boat. Is there something more efficient? thanks
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2012
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafterman45 View Post
I'm trying to understand what path my hands should take through the water.
I suggest a straight backwards trajectory. Owing to body roll, a curve may result - without conscious effort. Rotate the elbow, not the shoulder, until about mid-pull, keeping the hand lower than the elbow.

Both hand and forearm should feel some water pressure during the pull. Here is a graphical representation of the form.
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Neither. Don't think about it. Anchor your hand in the water in front of you and "leave it there" while you stroke your body past it. You want ti visualize that your hand is not moving at all. The rest of the body will travel past it.

yes ,there are ways to refine this, but right now it's probably not the top thing you need to think about. Imagine your hand is the bucket of a backhoe...you drop in in the water, but when you go to scoop, the bucket doesn't move, instead the backhoe gets pulled towards the bucket and slides past it.

You need to have supple and relaxed shoulders, elbows & wrist while still applying pressure int he water to hold your place in order to look as silky as terry and shinji do.
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2012
tab tab is offline
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CoachSuzanne, that analogy is even more clear if you picture the machine sitting on an icy surface. I have a small excavator with steel tracks that weighs in at just under 9 tons, on firm dirt with the blade dug in it is hard to move the machine, but on ice it is near impossible to keep it from moving toward the bucket. Great analogy. I guess the ice would translate into being as streamlined as possible to assist in this. On pure ice just the momentum of swinging the bucket will set the machine skating, it doesn't even have to catch the ground.
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  #5  
Old 03-11-2012
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
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Default Nice and gentle

Rafterman45. As Borate suggests, I agree that a straight backward trajectory is ideal. As long as you are not forcing the hand/arm through the water too aggressively during the stroke, this should be accomplished without much thought or effort. But as CoachSuzanne states, your time is probably better spent focusing on other stuff - drag reducing skills etc.

I've spent some time in an Endless Pool experimenting with different stroking pathways and have found no propulsive advantage in an S shape stroke. Incidentally, I have filmed myself performing the straight back trajectory from a few angles and have found that body rotation has a negligble effect on the visual perception of the movement.

Toby Haddock
TI Coach Brighton UK
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2012
tab tab is offline
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My right hand makes an S shape on its stroke. My left is much more direct. I can breath easier to one side than the other. Breathing to my left I find I am rushed, on my right breath it seems I can take a little longer. I believe I am relying on the S path my right hand takes to give me more time to breath.

I know I should not rely on the stroke to bring myself to air, this should come about from a different focus. As such I see the stroke path, in this case a longer S shape being a fault. It is almost a skulling stroke. So, is an S stroke something to avoid?
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Old 03-11-2012
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
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Tab. If you are timing it correctly you should have finished your inhalation before you engage the water with your stroking arm (approximately), so I question whether the S stroke is a bracing movement (unless you're holding your head up for too long of course).

I don't believe there is anything to be gained by an S shape trajectory, so I would personally avoid it. Indeed, it makes sense to me that this would produce force in the wrong direction resulting in wasted energy and maybe some kind of lateral movement (I guess). I do see fast swimmers who have S shape stroking pathways mind, although I doubt whether their speed can be attributed to this aspect of their stroke.

Toby Haddock
TI Coach Brighton
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Old 03-11-2012
tab tab is offline
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A timing issue, wonder if I can switch to a higher octane? Or maybe I will tweak the distributor a little to the right, I should check to see which way the engine rotates to see if that is advancing or retarding the timing. Funny how one side works and the other is not right.
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Old 03-12-2012
Zanna Zanna is offline
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[quote=CoachToby;27048]Tab. If you are timing it correctly you should have finished your inhalation before you engage the water with your stroking arm (approximately), so I question whether the S stroke is a bracing movement (unless you're holding your head up for too long of course).

Really??? This does not make sense to me. While breathing to the right, my head is "lying" on my left extended arm and my right arm is stroking. Why would my inhalation be finished before my right arm (my stroking arm) engages the water, which also corresponds to the core rotation? Any inappropriate bracing movement would be with the left arm (the arm that should be extended).
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2012
CoachToby CoachToby is offline
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Really??? This does not make sense to me. While breathing to the right, my head is "lying" on my left extended arm and my right arm is stroking. Why would my inhalation be finished before my right arm (my stroking arm) engages the water, which also corresponds to the core rotation? Any inappropriate bracing movement would be with the left arm (the arm that should be extended).[/quote]

Zanna. Your post is a little confusing! If you are breathing to the right and your left arm is extended, you will be recovering the right arm, not stroking it. As your left arm extends down the rail this is the point when you turn your head to air and breath. By the time you have completed your catch with the left arm (the stroking arm) you should have completed your inhalation. You then initiate rotation and engage the stroking arm. I hope that makes sense.

Toby Haddock
TI Coach Brighton
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