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  #1  
Old 01-26-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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andyinnorway
Default If you could only swim 1 set repeat for a whole month...

and still wanted to improve what would it be.

I had this thought today as I was swimming with two large bicep strains (got carried away with the Tabata concept in the Gym on Tuesday)

I was doing 50 repeats off 70 seconds holding SPL 15/16 and TT 1.02-1.14


so for me, if I added some focus and discipline to that I would have

32 x 50 in 40s off 1.00 TT 1.08 SPL 15 out 16 back.

50 repeats (short and precise) with flip turn (add a technical element) tt 1.08 (this is where I start to get sticky on the right hand side) challenging SPL of 15 and 16 for me at this speed, Total time 40s (If I can do multiple repeats at this speed with short rest it will help me achieve 1.20 100m PB.

My question to myself was if I just did this for a month would my swimming improve more than a month of my usual sets, tests, games and what not?

I think I will give it a try next month.
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  #2  
Old 01-26-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
and still wanted to improve what would it be.

I had this thought today as I was swimming with two large bicep strains (got carried away with the Tabata concept in the Gym on Tuesday)

I was doing 50 repeats off 70 seconds holding SPL 15/16 and TT 1.02-1.14


so for me, if I added some focus and discipline to that I would have

32 x 50 in 40s off 1.00 TT 1.08 SPL 15 out 16 back.

50 repeats (short and precise) with flip turn (add a technical element) tt 1.08 (this is where I start to get sticky on the right hand side) challenging SPL of 15 and 16 for me at this speed, Total time 40s (If I can do multiple repeats at this speed with short rest it will help me achieve 1.20 100m PB.

My question to myself was if I just did this for a month would my swimming improve more than a month of my usual sets, tests, games and what not?

I think I will give it a try next month.

No comment about Tabata in the gym (wrong application for the study IMO) Oops, sorry...that was a comment. ;)

anyway, as for your question, I think it would lead to some imrpovments, but perhaps at the expense of some alterations for the worse regarding form and/or injury.

Doing the same stimulus over & over again will help you adapt to that stimulus, but without change, adaptation will stagnate.

Then add in the form component to swimming and how much more important that is as compared to cycling for example.

Now, it's hard for me to tell from you rpost how "challenging" your proposed set is...but if it's at all challenging (and it sounds like it is), it will be really important to included sets at a restorative pace as Terry likes to say, in order to retain the best of your swim form and not give any of it away.

I have had several experiences where I have "discovered" a set that seems to result in rapid improvements, only to quickly stagnate and feel worse than ever before due to compromises that have occured in my stroke as a result of the "challenge". Only by dialing things way back can we ensure that form remains at it's highest level of perfection that you are currently able ot achieve.

Just last night I was going to forego my swim, but I met fellow TI instructor Danny Peleg at my pool...I gave him an interesting set, and then swam about half of his set in his draft and well behind to remove the drafting effect. I ended up doing an incredibly "restorative" swim in which for the first time I was routinely hitting 11 & 12 SPL, at a leisurely tempo with no feelings of sinking or poor balance, which is what typically happens. I was concerned it might be a drafting effect, so I began leaving opposite him (when he was at the other end) and I was still hitting 12 SPL.

Anyway, my point is that you should vary your efforts in order to remain efficient while also working on your increased tempo as well. So if I had to pick one set...perhaps I would do 1/4 of your proposed set above...and prior to and following that set I would do restorative, efficiency drills or swimming during the same practice.

Does that count as one set?
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #3  
Old 01-26-2012
CoachToddE CoachToddE is offline
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I also agree with Coach Suzanne's comments. To do a month of the same sets at the same pace you'd soon hit a plateau and probably not see the results you were anticipating.

But if I could only do one set for a month I'd probably do the one I did today. It encompasses most of what CoachSuzanne mentions but adds some speed work as well and at short distances.

Today I was pressed for time by the time I got to the pool and only had about 40 minutes before I had to be on deck for my noon Master's Practice. So I decided to do some short distances working on my pacing and maintaining SPL.

I started with 25's (yards) on :35 with the TT set at 1.20 and did four with SPL's at 15/14/14/14. I then increased the TT setting by .05 every four till I got to 1.35 at which point my SPL had decreased to 11/12. Satisfied that I had warmed up I started decreasing my TT by .03 and .02 every other 25 trying to maintain no more than 12 SPL per 25. I was able to hold this back down to 1.20. At this point I decided to switch to 50's on 1:00 still holding 12 SPL as long as I could. I continued to drop the TT setting by .02. At about 1.10 I started to add strokes and by 1.05 was at 15/16 SPL. I stopped at TT setting 1.00 and switched to 100's on 2:00 holding 15/16/1/6/16 per 100. After 4 100's I started to reduce the TT by .03 and .02 every other 100 till I reached .90. Stroke count had edged to 17/18/18/18. I then went back to 50's and reset the TT at .95 and held 17/18 SPL for another 4. At this juncture I decided to do a series of 25s starting at .95 and reducing the TT by .02 on :35 and holding 18 SPL and 2-beat kick. I did this down to .67 and at .77 my SPL had edged to 20 but did not increase the rest of the 25's. I like to do this to not only challenge tempo and learn to get a higher turn-over (which the TT is great for) but to also keep the 2-beat kick as long as possible. Since I was nearing the end of my time I reset the TT at .85 and did 4 50's on 1:00 holding 18 SPL. This felt really easy now after the .67 setting.

I really like the 25's at the fast setting because I really focus on the timing of the kick, hip and shoulder drive and feel how it really gets connected and can stay connected at even faster tempos than you think you can hold.
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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ian mac
Default Periodization and goal setting

Andy,
I completely agree with both Coaches. Every practice should have a variety of aspects to it in relation to the goals that have been established by swimmer and/or coach and are dependent on the part of the season (mesocycle) that they are training in.

Let's take your hero Sun Yang for example. His practices will be quite different than Michael Phelps as he is a distance freestyle guy and Phelps is concentrating on shorter distances and multiple strokes.

Also Sun Yang's early season practices will be quite different than 2 months before the Olympics.

Every swimmer will have different goals , dependent on a variety of factors. Regardless of the swimmer, however, I think that the thrust of the overall focus will always come down to the absolute core principle of Total Immersion: EFFICIENCY.

The fewer strokes you take and the faster you get there, the more efficient you become. Figuring out in a mindful way how to get the kinetic chain of our body to do this is what makes each practice fun and different. To adopt a cookie cutter practice for all seasons would probably become boring quickly and make the joy of swimming quickly less fun
Ian

Last edited by ian mac : 01-27-2012 at 03:17 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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andyinnorway
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Agree with you all that training needs variety but wanted to discuss the notion that not all sets are equal.

My challenge to myself was to create a single repeat that offered a lot of learning opportunity.

TT 1.08 is within my threshold zone so that has challenges

I can flip turn ok but do not do it often enough to be second nature so that would be good

holding SPL at SR 1.08 requires mindful swimming

Its also a good set for training precise first hand entry mechanics and timing

Swimming repeats off 1 minute will train my fitness

20 seconds rest each repeat will give my brain time to make iterative changes.

There is merit in focusing on a simple single task for a whole session (bit like karate kid being forced to take his coat on and off for a day).

On another note I only have access to a 12m hotel pool today, any suggestions?
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Todd, love the set!
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #7  
Old 01-27-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Agree with you all that training needs variety but wanted to discuss the notion that not all sets are equal.

My challenge to myself was to create a single repeat that offered a lot of learning opportunity.

TT 1.08 is within my threshold zone so that has challenges

I can flip turn ok but do not do it often enough to be second nature so that would be good

holding SPL at SR 1.08 requires mindful swimming

Its also a good set for training precise first hand entry mechanics and timing

Swimming repeats off 1 minute will train my fitness

20 seconds rest each repeat will give my brain time to make iterative changes.

There is merit in focusing on a simple single task for a whole session (bit like karate kid being forced to take his coat on and off for a day).

On another note I only have access to a 12m hotel pool today, any suggestions?
Yes, but that wasn't your question, was it? You want to do this for a whole month? You will improve, then stagnate. But try it and see what happens.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #8  
Old 01-27-2012
AWP AWP is offline
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AWP
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Andy,
Go for it dude. We need exemplar 'guinea pigs', I mean that in a good way. I'm willing to sacrifice a month of your time to hear the input ; )))
After all what's the rush, the world's our oyster, you just might find a pearl!
What I'll do today (and if I had to choose 1 set)...
5 rounds 3 x 200 yards TempoTrainer pace adaptation
1. @ 1.20/ 1.22/ 1.24
2. @ 1.19/ 1.21/ 1.23
3. @ 1.18/ 1.20/ 1.22
4. @ 1.17/ 1.19/ 1.21
5. @ 1.16/ 1.18/ 1.20
My job will be to tune in on the first repeat staying within my strokes per length range and perhaps better it by the third repeat in each round. I believe this should enable me to maintain my spl range while I steadily decrease tempo and hopefully better my pace as I steadily increase tempo. I'll mark times only on the 1.20 setting repeats. I should know by the middle if I need to make adjustments or end the set.
I can keep this template and change the distance, tempos or # of rounds. I'll do this once per week at similar settings and distance and look to change every two weeks. Slower or faster tempos? Shorter or longer distances? Keep it the same? Will all be determined after each two week 'block'.
Keep up the good fun and uh, try not to hurt yourself!

Best,
Alan
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachToddE View Post
I started with 25's (yards) on :35 with the TT set at 1.20 and did four with SPL's at 15/14/14/14. I then increased the TT setting by .05 every four till I got to 1.35 at which point my SPL had decreased to 11/12. Satisfied that I had warmed up I started decreasing my TT by .03 and .02 every other 25 trying to maintain no more than 12 SPL per 25. I was able to hold this back down to 1.20. At this point I decided to switch to 50's on 1:00 still holding 12 SPL as long as I could. I continued to drop the TT setting by .02. At about 1.10 I started to add strokes and by 1.05 was at 15/16 SPL. I stopped at TT setting 1.00 and switched to 100's on 2:00 holding 15/16/1/6/16 per 100. After 4 100's I started to reduce the TT by .03 and .02 every other 100 till I reached .90. Stroke count had edged to 17/18/18/18. I then went back to 50's and reset the TT at .95 and held 17/18 SPL for another 4. At this juncture I decided to do a series of 25s starting at .95 and reducing the TT by .02 on :35 and holding 18 SPL and 2-beat kick. I did this down to .67 and at .77 my SPL had edged to 20 but did not increase the rest of the 25's. I like to do this to not only challenge tempo and learn to get a higher turn-over (which the TT is great for) but to also keep the 2-beat kick as long as possible. Since I was nearing the end of my time I reset the TT at .85 and did 4 50's on 1:00 holding 18 SPL. This felt really easy now after the .67 setting.
Sounds like a great time in the pool. Will try it, thanks!
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWP View Post
Andy,
Go for it dude. We need exemplar 'guinea pigs', I mean that in a good way. I'm willing to sacrifice a month of your time to hear the input ; )))
After all what's the rush, the world's our oyster, you just might find a pearl!
What I'll do today (and if I had to choose 1 set)...
5 rounds 3 x 200 yards TempoTrainer pace adaptation
1. @ 1.20/ 1.22/ 1.24
2. @ 1.19/ 1.21/ 1.23
3. @ 1.18/ 1.20/ 1.22
4. @ 1.17/ 1.19/ 1.21
5. @ 1.16/ 1.18/ 1.20
My job will be to tune in on the first repeat staying within my strokes per length range and perhaps better it by the third repeat in each round. I believe this should enable me to maintain my spl range while I steadily decrease tempo and hopefully better my pace as I steadily increase tempo. I'll mark times only on the 1.20 setting repeats. I should know by the middle if I need to make adjustments or end the set.
I can keep this template and change the distance, tempos or # of rounds. I'll do this once per week at similar settings and distance and look to change every two weeks. Slower or faster tempos? Shorter or longer distances? Keep it the same? Will all be determined after each two week 'block'.
Keep up the good fun and uh, try not to hurt yourself!

Best,
Alan
Alan, I like it, please.post set and.results in a new thread under favorite setS. I really like he idea of hese various test sets that people have derived for themselves.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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