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  #1  
Old 02-26-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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Default Scissoring legs

Another theory of mine:

1. scissoring (i.e. laterally splayed legs) is always the result of excessive rotation;

2. the cure for excessive rotation is (i) shallower spearing and/or (ii) turning the head to augment the effect of body roll when going for air, in each case while reaching fully along wide tracks.

Sound right? The above captures what worked for me. I can't think of what else might cause scissoring, but would be interested in everyone's thoughts.

If it is right then perhaps the TI materials could be clearer on spearing depth and the need to turn the head for air.

Last edited by Lawrence : 02-26-2011 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 02-27-2011
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Not only excessive rotation but poor balance can also have an effect and the combination of the two will make it become even more noticeable .

Dave
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Old 02-27-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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Dave, could you explain? Not sure I understand how poor balance differs from over-rotation.
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Old 02-27-2011
andreasl33 andreasl33 is offline
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I'd say how much rotation is too much is different from swimmer to swimmer. It takes some skill to rotate, say, 70° off the flat position and not splay the legs. If you do not predictably stop at 70° degrees, but are in danger of sometimes rotating more than 80° or 90°, then the legs will scissor in order to stop the body from falling over. But if your other movements (kick, pull, spear) are so finetuned that your rotation will stop at 70° anyway, there is no need for the legs to scissor. So what may be overrotation for a beginning swimmer could be manageable for a more seasoned swimmer.
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Old 02-27-2011
flppr flppr is offline
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When I was experimenting with and working on ultra-slow swimming, I discovered that, with practice, I could rotate to 90 degrees without splaying. So its not rotation, per se, that causes splaying but a lack of lateral stability when you're in a rotated position.
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Old 02-27-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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What is lateral stability if not the ability to rotate with splaying the legs?
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Old 02-27-2011
terry terry is offline
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It's an interesting concept that what is excessive rotation for one person might be just right for another. I'd not considered it, but wouldn't rule it out.

Notwithstanding that I still work pretty regularly on both controlling rotation and increasing lateral stability

Lateral stability means that a combination of properly deployed limbs and well-tuned spinal stabilizers reduces one's need to use the limbs to compensate.

When legs don't splay, you reduce drag and the legs are also positioned for an effective 2BK.

And here's what I like about this Forum. Throw out the term 'lateral stability' on literally any other swimming forum and no one will know what you're talking about. Here, if either 'splayed legs' or 'overrotation' are mentioned, someone will mention lateral stability.
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Last edited by terry : 02-28-2011 at 12:09 AM.
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2011
aquarius aquarius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Another theory of mine:

1. scissoring (i.e. laterally splayed legs) is always the result of excessive rotation;
Couldn't scissoring be caused precisely by the opposite, when breathing: insufficient rotation, which causes the head and/or the torso to raise, hence the legs to sink, and to scissor to compensate?

And isn't a 2-beat kick naturally more prone to scissoring than a 6-beat kick or a regular flutter-kick?
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Old 03-01-2011
CoachBrian CoachBrian is offline
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I agree that splayed legs are often caused by over rotation, especially when breathing. To correct the over rotation, I deploy 3 remedies:

1. Spear on a wider track. With the lead arm wide, it is harder to over-rotate.

2. Simply keeping the kick vertical solves both the over-rotation and the scissoring/splayed legs.

These two remedies are best learned on short repeats with little breathing, because over-rotation is often a result of breathing. When you turn the first two remedies into habits, it is easier to address the third remedy.

3. Learn to breathe with less rotation using the Swim and Nod drill.
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Old 03-01-2011
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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I think 3 is crucial and needs emphasis. In order to breathe with less rotation you have to turn the head. Much discussion here suggests the head just goes with the body 'for the ride' as the body rolls. That is a recipe for over-rotation, every time.
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