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  #11  
Old 08-27-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Ok, another one :)


Some points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieK View Post
...Last year, when I swam in OW I focused on having a relaxed stroke and basically enjoying myself. The scenery, the company, being off away from the shore, etc. I completed 8 OW races, including my first ever. I was surprised and disappointed in my results on all of them. Because 1.) I didn't know how to set realistic goals 2.) Each event had such different circumstances and conditions and 3.) I hardly ever timed myself in the pool. I thought since I had a low stroke count in the pool, I should be able to swim fast in OW. Nope. I was actually swimming slower than I thought in the pool.
Well, nothing wrong about enjoying it, first of all. But I can understand that you set different goals. I read that with the unrealistic expectations, that's great. There is a book here in the German speaking area, from an Austrian psychologist, translated the title is 'The Instruction Manual On How To Be Unhappy' by Paul Watzlawick. I think it is from the eighties and it is cult. It basically lists those (neurotic) behaviours that we have that cannot but lead us into unhappines, in line with your 'how to set unrealistic goals'. I remember this one from the book, which I think was actually quoted from another book, something like' Advice to Jewish Mothers', and it said: Buy your son two T-Shirts. When he is wearing one of them, make a sad face and with a disappointed voice say: 'Oh, you don't like the other one?'. Just hilarious. In fact we often do those kind of things.
I think there is one point that we tend to overlook with unrealistic expectations, that is our mind doing that. Those thoughts of ours always tend to goals that are unreachable and thus we have a strong tendency to disappoint ourselves. But we never look at that mind that is doing it and we never get the idea not to take those thoughts serious. It seems we have a great capacity to cope with suffering but we cannot stand happiness for a long time. So we always make sure to come back to unhappiness. Quite strange.
Quote:
...This year, I've become OCD about measuring my pace in OW practice swims.
OCD ? Osteochondrosis dissecans? Obsessive–compulsive disorder ? (sorry, if it's something obvious...). The second would make sense though.

About times, I also never measure myself, I only get indications through some math with my stroke count. Even if I try it is difficult for me to break the 50 secs barrier for a 50 m or 25 s for 25m respectively. I once did 25 m with 19 strokes at 0.9, which should give me ~ 20 secs, but whenever I have a chance to check a timer it is 25 seconds or more. Strange. And of course I want to be fast ;). And because of my breathing limitations I cannot talk about 100m or even more. But one day... I'll report the times. Strangely enough I found myself having set unrealistic goals already.


Where is the 'I like it' button? I'll press it for la-la land.

Quote:
...That's pretty much what I was doing before. What I didn't realize was that when I did that my catch was slipping.
Which means when you speed up your stroke rate the catch does not slip ?


Quote:
...Just between you and me, I started crying under my goggles one time ...
Ok, I am not going to tell anyone, and I am not going to quote it ;). I just ordered another pair of my favorite swedish goggles, this one with a mirrored outside. Good move it seems. I can borrow it when times are getting tough again :)

Quote:
...I definitely want to bring my SPL back down. I'm just in a transition phase right now. Like a grown-up-looking preteen that still plays with dolls.
Great picture and good to get them down!
Nevertheless, believe me, for all those goals that don't have an objective fixed end this will always be the case. If your goal is to climb a mountain, you do it or not, that's it. But if your goal is to swim better, or to be always fiendly, or to be a good human being, or ... you will always remain in a transition phase. You will always have only an approximation, but you yourself will never get the feeling 'you made it' and you yourself will always see your flaws, and you will always see flaws.
Having said that I can also understand that. For me it is my breathing. In breaststroke I have a very relaxed, unhurried, well-timed breathing. When I switch to freestyle it immediately changes and I experience a pressured state. This keeps me from swimming longer distances in one piece. Unless I don't have the same ease in the freestyle breathing I see this as a transitory state, and don't call myself a swimmer for the time being.
But after that another transitory state will come, I am sure.

Quote:
...Just imagine as he improves. His stroke will always be WAY longer than mine. But if I want to keep swimming faster than him (which I do!), I'll always have to stroke faster.
Well, dear, this is stating the obvious, isn't it? You are 5'7'', I am 5'10'', Terry is 6'0'', your buddy is even taller, so the shorter ones need to stroke faster, and/or be super efficient to come to the same speed. Are you complaining about a little challenge in your marvelous strain- and pain-free dwelling in the Arizonian lake-padded paradise ? ;) :)


Question.

What is the fun in your swimming that you mentioned?

Like for me - amongst others - it is the glide. I love it. It gives me a weightless, an agravic feeling, like moving through another sphere, although it is very sensual it tends to dissociate me from my body. It is an inexpressible feeling of well being. So I always lock my hands during push-off, streamline very well and glide effortless through space. It is amazing how long you glide before you come to a full stop. I also sometimes do an extra slow lap with long glides just to enjoy that feeling.

You are swimming in OW most of the time, as I understand, so you move through this choppy, muddy water, with strange, very starnge or extremely strange (those where you don't want to know what it is) objects passing you, not seeing anything of the nice scenery having your head buried in the dark voidness below you, doing bizarre sighting movements but still not really seeing where you are, no one can admire your goggles, sometimes the water suddenly gets cold and makes you almost shiver, than it is too warm and you cannot really sweat, sometimes it feels as if the dark huge hole below you wants to suck you down, sometimes it is as if the water wants to push you away, you constanly look for the remains of the Titanic to appear or at least a submarine and not this fat carb again where you never know whether it will start to nibble on some of your sensitive areas on the lower side of your body, it gets exteremly boring, you fight against the haunting feeling that you might not have switched off the iron and can't stop fantasizing about your house burning and the cat sitting inside the kitchen window looking angrily out and being really pissed with you, once you managed to be relaxed your swim buddy gives you a nice kick and swears it was not on purpose, in one word it is a perfect nightmare and you want to tell us it is fun ?
Not even that, that you love it?

Ok, seriously, can you put that in words, what the fun exactly is ?


Sorry, this all got a bit long.

Hang on n there...
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2011
KatieK KatieK is offline
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Based on your description of a lake, I wonder if you've ever seen one...

A few "points" for you:
1.) Believe it or not, swimming at a brisk pace does not affect my vision. I still enjoy the scenery.
2.) There's a difference between a pause/dead spot and the natural glide that is part of an efficient stroke. Terry and Shinji both do a great job of carrying their momentum from one stroke to the next. There is no pause or dead spot in either of their strokes.
3.) I wholeheartedly agree with the TI philosophy that beginners should swim slowly and focus on technique. The things I'm working on today would not have been helpful 2 years ago.
4.) Swimming fast is EXTREMELY fun. (Not that I'm fast. Just fast for me.) Racing my friends is fun. It makes me feel like a kid. My technique is at its best when I'm pacing off of someone. Also, it's easier to get into a meditative state when I'm swimming fast. It requires 100% concentration to keep it up, so my mind is less likely to wander.
5.) OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
6.) Open Water Swimming is really fun. But it's also tough. It can be scary and uncomfortable. Like real life, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
I remember this one from the book, which I think was actually quoted from another book, something like' Advice to Jewish Mothers', and it said: Buy your son two T-Shirts. When he is wearing one of them, make a sad face and with a disappointed voice say: 'Oh, you don't like the other one?'.
Ha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
About times, I also never measure myself, I only get indications through some math with my stroke count. Even if I try it is difficult for me to break the 50 secs barrier for a 50 m or 25 s for 25m respectively. I once did 25 m with 19 strokes at 0.9, which should give me ~ 20 secs, but whenever I have a chance to check a timer it is 25 seconds or more. Strange.
That's what was happening to me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
Which means when you speed up your stroke rate the catch does not slip?
Ideally. It's a work in progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
I see this as a transitory state, and don't call myself a swimmer for the time being. But after that another transitory state will come, I am sure.
That's the fun of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
you fight against the haunting feeling that you might not have switched off the iron
Iron?
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieK View Post
Based on your description of a lake, I wonder if you've ever seen one...
Yes, I think I once saw one ;)
In fact I swam in a lake in the south of France in this summer vacation.

The description was meant to be a joke (iron = electric iron, pressing iron, flat iron, smoothing iron, that what you can forget to switch off when you leave your house in a rush...). In one of the neighboring villages they have a small lake and report about carbs that slide along your body when you swim...
The question about the fun was serious. Got kind of answered.

Regarding Point 4) I totally agree on the fun of swimming fast.
Meditative states for me occur easier at lower speeds, I need a certain level of relexation (plus having the mind not wandering off).
I try all day long to catch my mind from wandering, but that is really, really difficult.

Frankly speaking I had hoped for a little more detailed description of that 'fun' in the OW swimming since I know that your are quite good in putting those things into words. But thanks for your answer anyway.


BTW I just came from the pool, and I did something that I never did before in my freestyle career: I swam 20 laps continous = 1000m, one breaststroke, one freestyle left side breathing, one breastsstroke, one freestyle right side breathing, and so on. I wanted to set a goal, thought of your advice with the unrealistic goals and figured it would be nice to make it in less than 30 minutes. I finished after 26 minutes :)
Everytime at the wall I had a strong urge to stop but kept going and let the breathing relax itself. It was tough but worked out. It's a lot easier now.
Damm another question... do you/did you have/had breathing problems ?



Anyway, have a nice weekend and thanks again
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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I am at the same level as the original poster. I can swim 100m in a range of 1:25 to 1:33 through all TT levels from 0.9 to 1.3 but have not yet swum under 1:20.

But then, if I rest and do a 25m with TT on 0.8 I take 21 strokes which is 16.8 seconds. Also, my 100m are always wall starts and I do not flip turn yet.

I therefore see that with patient practice so that I can swim at TT 0.8 for 100m, introduce a racing dive and acquire flip turn skills, work harder at my bilateral breathing and my 1:20 target will suddenly become a 1:10 and i will move on to the holy grail of masters sprinting of sub 1:00

If I want to swim sub 1.20 soon without the dive and flip turn then I would practice at TT of 0.8 and below and use builder sets until I can swim 50m in under 38 and 75 in under 59 and eventually my 100m in 80s.
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
...
But then, if I rest and do a 25m with TT on 0.8 I take 21 strokes which is 16.8 seconds. ...
There is also a pushoff, if that is 3 beeps you have to add 2.4 s to your time which brings it to 19.2. And for turns Terry usually adds 4 beeps which makes it exactly 20 secs, voila, there is your 1:20 again.
So to be faster you need either to shave one stroke off that 0.8 timing which brings you 19.2 equaling ~1:17, or to go for a 0.7, then even with 22 strokes you end up with (22+4)*0.7 = 18.2 = ~1:13.


Are you using a 2 beat-kick in these sets or a 6bk?
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