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  #1  
Old 02-16-2011
Grant Grant is offline
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Default soft hook and flop

A little while ago a TI coach mentioned he used the word "flop" to describe how to move the extended underwater arm to the catch position.
After a 3 week layoff due to illness I was back in the pool for the first time this AM since I read his post and used that method "flop" of setting up the catch. Felt great and I felt it got me into a early vertical forearm sooner. Not world class sooner but sooner than I had been accompishing.
After about 10 lengths I had an insight that this is what TERRY means by a soft hook. Up till today I could not get my head around or visualize "soft hook".
Another example of how one description works for some and another for others. Now they both work for me.
My aging brain has lost the name of the TI coach that brought up "flop" so I thank you in annominity as well as the scource, Terry.
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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Old 02-16-2011
aerogramma aerogramma is offline
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hello Grant,
just today Coach Suzanne was mentioning the 'flop' as an advice given to her by coach Dave Cameron, if I remember correctly.

what was the mental image you used to achieve the flop/soft hook?

it may be a language related issue but so far I haven't been able to succesfully apply any of them ('over the barrell' etc etc)

all the best
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Old 02-16-2011
terry terry is offline
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I confess to not understanding what Dave might have meant by "flop." That sounds accidental or limp to me. Whereas my entry and catch are highly intentional and very engaged.

As a matter of fact that transition from entry, to extension, to initiating the stroke was the primary focus of my 2800-yd practice today.
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  #4  
Old 02-16-2011
Grant Grant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerogramma View Post
hello Grant,
just today Coach Suzanne was mentioning the 'flop' as an advice given to her by coach Dave Cameron, if I remember correctly.

what was the mental image you used to achieve the flop/soft hook?

it may be a language related issue but so far I haven't been able to succesfully apply any of them ('over the barrell' etc etc)

all the best
Hi aerogramma. It wasnt so much a mental image as the actual physical movement of allowing the forearm to drop in a relaxed manner while keeping the upperarm horizontal and slightly moved outside the shoulder line.
This results in the dropped hand and wrist still being in line with the shoulder or on track.
The way I was doing it before was lowering the the lower arm but with tension in that part and it was not dropping nearly as easily as by allowing it to flop or drop in a relaxed manner.
Hope this is clear.
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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Old 02-16-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default The Flop

It does sound accidental or limp. Last Sept. while visiting Coach Dave I was shown a dry land drill which I believe is what every one is referring to. The movement of the extended forearm releases into a soft hook type form when the recovering arm spears. I don't think it is accidental, as the timing and coordination are intentional.

I can picture it and practice on dry land but as some have already mentioned putting to practice in water is a different matter.

I hope this kind of describes what Coach Dave was trying to show.




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  #6  
Old 02-16-2011
Grant Grant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westyswoods View Post
It does sound accidental or limp. Last Sept. while visiting Coach Dave I was shown a dry land drill which I believe is what every one is referring to. The movement of the extended forearm releases into a soft hook type form when the recovering arm spears. I don't think it is accidental, as the timing and coordination are intentional.
What I was doing this morning wasn't done in an accidental way, it was done when the recovering arm was spearing. I also dint think limp describes what I was doing rather the forearm was relaxed. It was done very intentionally.
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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Old 02-17-2011
flppr flppr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Hi aerogramma. It wasnt so much a mental image as the actual physical movement of allowing the forearm to drop in a relaxed manner while keeping the upperarm horizontal and slightly moved outside the shoulder line.
This results in the dropped hand and wrist still being in line with the shoulder or on track.
Hope this is clear.
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
That sounds right to me. The important part, though, is that the lowering (I call it relaxing) of the forearm must accompany and be initiated by core rotation toward the catch arm. If not, you're asking for shoulder problems.

Last edited by flppr : 02-17-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 02-17-2011
Grant Grant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flppr View Post
That sounds right to me. The important part, though, is that the lowering (I call it relaxing) of the forearm must accompany and be initiated by core rotation toward the catch arm. If not, you're asking for shoulder problems.
Thank you flppr. I was just isolating the flop/soft hook action without going into the rest of the equation in an effort to keep it short and simple.
All the timing of spearing arm and core rotation and toe flick are as Terry has taught.
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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It was me in this thread:

http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...0&postcount=15

Here's where I discuss it. Prior to learning this from Dave, I had been unsuccessful at getting a high elbow DESPITE knowing what it is and what I should be doing, trying REALLY hard to accomplish it and mistakenly thinking I was doing it. Coach Dave fixed it for me. :)

Quote:
c) Finally, after getting the above two things to synch well in a stroke that was rotating easily from right skate to left skate, Dave Cameron let me in on his little secret...the "Forearm Flop". it's really hard to describe, but what you are watching when I swim is not a pull, it's not reaching over the barrel, it's not trying to keep a "high elbow"...it's my body "rolling under" my upper arm as I let the forearm "flop" into a vertical position. The body roll and the forearm flop are intricately tied to one another, and when you've got it right, there's zero chance of dropping yoru elbow, there is no stress on your shoulders and it takes very little muscular strength). It's all just coordination.
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2011
Grant Grant is offline
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Well I owe you Suzanne and Dave big time. The piece that fell into place was the allowing the forearm to drop in a relaxed fashion. I already had the timing ( at least close :o) ) so it felt like the last piece of a jigsaw.
Am sure that when I take a close look at the jigsaw I will see there are other pieces to be fitted in.
The beat goes on.
May we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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