Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-04-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default A dryland balance drill

planks are the regular core exercise for swimmers, but not much fun.
And they dont really mimic the swim action for relaxed swimming, supporting the bodyweight from the arms and legs. Something you dont want in normal pace swimming.

In normal swimming the buoyancy is supporting, and the heavy arms and legs have to be lifted form this center.
Its a cpmbination of back muscle and correct pelvis angle mostly.(aquatic posture)

Balancing in superman position on your belly/rigcage on a fittness ball comes pretty close.
If you deflate the ball to make a bigger surface under the ball and your body, its not so difficult to do.
When you get better at it you can add more disturbing arms and leg movements and pumpt the ball up to make it more unstable.
Use your arms to balance for starters.
I think this balance and core drill is not so boring as doing planks and gives some usefull swimming,muscle memory clues.
Dont bend the body up from the lower back, but keep it all aligned between legs and arms.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-04-2016 at 10:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2016
sclim sclim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,499
sclim
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Balancing in superman position on your belly/rigcage on a fittness ball comes pretty close.
If you deflate the ball to make a bigger surface under the ball and your body, its not so difficult to do.
Assuming for the moment that this is more efficient use of your time and mental concentration resources than attempting to do this in the pool, isolated of other activities, or in combination with whole swimming, when doing this on dry land on a fitness ball, how does the practitioner ensure that the correct body alignment of all the trunk components (pelvis, lumbar, thorax, neck, head) is being maintained? If it's difficult in water (which it is, that's why we're doing it another way), how do we make it easy on land (and largely in mid-air against gravity) to assess real-time alignment?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-04-2016
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 604
CoachDavidShen
Default

It is deceptive to say one exercise is bad in all cases. You always need to look at the person and see what they need.

Planks train the ability to generate tension, if done properly and to align the body, again, if done properly. But you can plank and have poor body alignment which is training the wrong aspects. In the kettlebell world, the push up style plank, either with straight arms or on elbows, is more to train the anterior core and the ability to generate/maintain tension throughout the torso. Side planks train stabilization in other planes. Shoulder position is crucial no matter what to make sure you aren't wrecking your shoulders while training planks.

Supermans train the posterior chain. It lights up the posterior muscles along the shoulders, back, glutes, and back of legs. But if you are already hold a normal posture of over extended spine, then you may need more planks and other anterior core training to bring you back to neutral.

Like wise if you are kyphotic or bending towards the front, then supermans and other posterior chain exercises can help bring you back to neutral.

The prescription for any athlete is very individual and a good coach will be able to select the right exercise, plank, superman or otherwise, for your needs.
__________________
__________________
David Shen
Total Immersion Coach
Menloswim.com
Menlo Park, CA
https://www.coachdshen.com/blog/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-04-2016
IngeA IngeA is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 150
IngeA
Default

I think every exercise which trains core muscles is good for every sport and even "only" for better posture in normal life.
You can train the muscles and general coordination with swimming drills, you can train them outside the pool.
I did such exercises a lot when I was doing gymnastics. And swimming for me is such an exercise as for some this exercise on the gymnastic ball is: for me swimming is not really to have success in swimming (it's a nice side effect), but originally I started swimming for better core coordination and power in Ving Tsun (and it works excellent).
Now swimming is another sport I'm "addicted" to.
I can't go to the pool every day, not every day there is Ving Tsun training, but general training I can do at home and it helps in every sports.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-04-2016
Janos Janos is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Liverpool, England
Posts: 389
Janos
Default

As a general conditioning exercise it is okay, but if you practice this without being aware that there is a difference between your centre of gravity and your centre of buoyancy then it won't really help your swimming.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-04-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
Assuming for the moment that this is more efficient use of your time and mental concentration resources than attempting to do this in the pool, isolated of other activities, or in combination with whole swimming, when doing this on dry land on a fitness ball, how does the practitioner ensure that the correct body alignment of all the trunk components (pelvis, lumbar, thorax, neck, head) is being maintained? If it's difficult in water (which it is, that's why we're doing it another way), how do we make it easy on land (and largely in mid-air against gravity) to assess real-time alignment?
Sclim, proprioception on dryland is easier than in the water right?
If not, get a mirror, adjust your posture, remember how that feels and try to hold the same basic posture without the mirror.
Its not so super critical.< move your arms forward or backward to stay balanced.
Balancing itself makes you more aware of your body actions and relative positions of bodyparts, so hopefully a mirror isnt needed anymore after a while.
Ball on carpet gives more roll friction to make it easier.
Find your inner ape haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Utr3ylHAg

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-04-2016 at 09:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-05-2016
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 479
s.sciame
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Wow, I didn't know you can use a fitness ball in that many ways! I have one at home, have to get some dust away from it. Some more achievable tasks you can do with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cNvpIamQOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-3-SLhf9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FQ9PInN49A

Agree about planks, I find them boring. It's much better to play in the ground with kids, relearning smooth movements, somersaults etc.

Salvo
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-06-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachDavidShen View Post
It is deceptive to say one exercise is bad in all cases. You always need to look at the person and see what they need.

Planks train the ability to generate tension, if done properly and to align the body, again, if done properly. But you can plank and have poor body alignment which is training the wrong aspects. In the kettlebell world, the push up style plank, either with straight arms or on elbows, is more to train the anterior core and the ability to generate/maintain tension throughout the torso. Side planks train stabilization in other planes. Shoulder position is crucial no matter what to make sure you aren't wrecking your shoulders while training planks.

Supermans train the posterior chain. It lights up the posterior muscles along the shoulders, back, glutes, and back of legs. But if you are already hold a normal posture of over extended spine, then you may need more planks and other anterior core training to bring you back to neutral.

Like wise if you are kyphotic or bending towards the front, then supermans and other posterior chain exercises can help bring you back to neutral.

The prescription for any athlete is very individual and a good coach will be able to select the right exercise, plank, superman or otherwise, for your needs.
I agree there should be a balance between posterior and anterior development.
But planks load the belly and sides enormously relative to the backside, so I started doing these to keep it balanced.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-06-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janos View Post
As a general conditioning exercise it is okay, but if you practice this without being aware that there is a difference between your centre of gravity and your centre of buoyancy then it won't really help your swimming.
while doing long planks it was obvious that this exercise is very far removed from core tension needed in normal swimming.

I found the supernan float on a fittness ball way closer to swimming.
Its not entirely the same, but its hard to find a dryland exercise thats closer to the basic meeded core tone in swimming that you can do with simple props.
The forces are about 10 times higher than in the water, and the center of gravity and the center of buoyancy are not exactly the same, but the same front rear and side balance actions can be simulated roughly.
And in the water you have to keep body tone for an hour, not for a few minutes.
Besides that, you can experiment with posture changes and build muscle memory for those positions and actions while you are lying balanced on the balll.

- keeping aligned horizontal and going from anterior to posterior pelvic tilt
- pointing the toes and relax them again, turn feet inward, kick a bit.
- retracting the scapula, lifting the elbows and relax again
- extracting the shouldercomplex forwards and relaxing again.
- diagonal raises of arm and legs.
- and doing more swim movements while trying to stay balanced. Lots of things to try.
if you are a balance champ you even can try balancing on your side with recovery etc.
Make it a circus act and balancing in the water becomes a breeze.



all the forces of these actions and their effect on balance resemble the effect in the water pretty good.
These actions are not things you experience in everyday live.
The muscles needed are weak and underdeveloped and the balance is differnt as in a walking position.
Its all the opposite of sitting behind a computer all day.
To conclude. I am going to spend more time on this one because I get better swim awareness and specific muscle endurance from it.
If its helping me, it could also be beneficial for others.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 01-06-2016 at 07:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.