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  #31  
Old 12-08-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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His spear and pull are driving rotation too much instead of letting the body fall toward the recovery arm twisting more from the bottom up and pulling later?
He is swimming the same rate as Sun Yang in slowmo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CAy...ature=youtu.be
The very rough basics doesnt seem to be that different. Sun Yang has EVF almost ready when his other arm enters, so he is pulling even faster.

The very busy floortiling jams his brain and causes coordination problems?

He has a problemetic relationship with his parents?

Last edited by Zenturtle : 12-08-2015 at 08:10 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-08-2015
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello,

unfair late and just a presumption...

The recovery seems not very relaxed and I guess whole recovery is not elbow led?

Best regards,
Werner
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  #33  
Old 12-08-2015
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
The lope was developed through years of pre TI splashing in the water type "free-style swimming", where I (analysed in retrospect) pulled (actually pushed) down on the front portion of my right sided breathing stroke to get safety overwater mouth clearance on my habitual comfortable right side breathing. The lope was easily identifiable, but really hard to eliminate, but I got serious when I finally identified through use of a Tempo Trainer that I was hurrying that phase of the stroke. Knowing that, and having a complete blank slate in learning to breathe on the left side (with the opportunity to observe what was going on as I learned) gave me the motivation to push through all the panicky choking that came with gradually lowering my high right sided lope.
HI Sclim:

So it was lifting the head to breathe, and possibly a long and/or late breath that triggered the imbalance lead to the stroke asymmetry - pressing down on the lead arm to buoyant the head - correct? That's actually the #1 problem for most swimmers, "lifting head to breath, long or late breathe a very close second. Good work fixing that issue, and is something we all have to maintain. Now back to lykthomas, what do you think is causing his imbalances that trigger all the extra movement below the surface.

Werner: I think you may be on to something, you're thinking outside the box :-)

ZT: I think you are much more capable than sarcasm, although I'll have to keep the busy floortilling jams the brain - hilarious.

More than one perspective, collective views certainly helps, some humor is always good too.

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 12-08-2015 at 08:25 PM.
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  #34  
Old 12-08-2015
bx bx is offline
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I love a good puzzle!

OK Stuart, here's my guess. He has very tight pec muscles, or shoulder impingement pain.

He doesn't seem able to internally rotate his arm on extension - his hands go into a vertical orientation. This could be a symptom of shoulder impingment issues - a neutral position helps alleviates pain.
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  #35  
Old 12-08-2015
Janos Janos is offline
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Swimmer will always be low in the water over-rotating like that.
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  #36  
Old 12-08-2015
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Hi BX:

You are on to something more, "recovery elbow behind [above] back plane", "His hands go into a vertical orientation" - are you thinking above surface or below surface context, maybe both?

Hi Janos: He's certainly over-rotated or at max rotation, but what's triggering the extra rotation? Is his sinking due to lack of buoyancy - being pulled down, or is there a force pushing him deeper, maybe both?
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  #37  
Old 12-08-2015
Janos Janos is offline
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Seems to me he over-rotates taking a breath, and then his buoyancy brings him back up a bit, and then he repeats the process sinking going for air?
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  #38  
Old 12-08-2015
bx bx is offline
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This is difficult! OK, another idea - at the end of max rotation, the foot on the high hip side rotates outwards and seems to flex, acting like a parachute, further dragging his lower half down.

Edit:
In response to your question, I see his hands go vertical below the surface, but judging by the odd-looking contortions on the palm upon entry, I'd guess what is happening is that when he recovers his hand from the water, he's holding it with palm facing towards his body, which makes it very easy to pull the elbow over his back and cause overrotation. if he simply kept his palm facing straight back throughout, it might solve a lot of problems.

Last edited by bx : 12-08-2015 at 10:54 PM.
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  #39  
Old 12-08-2015
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Excellent and I see what you are talking about. And he's definitely rotating more for air adding to instability, the big knee bend kick is a response or symptom. Take a look at frames between 0:06 - 0:07 where his right recovery arm is entering in front of head and low side arm is beginning to rip/pull back - all twisted up in front like a corkscrew. Also look at frames between 0:07-0:08 , notice the left shoulder blade is subducted, sunken in (why the subduction?), shoulder pinched - low side arm dropped elbow, forearm scooping to the surface. In these few stills, looks like the he's falling, bracing for impact - body's reaction to imbalance. Where is the high side (recovery) forearm and hand?

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 12-08-2015 at 11:31 PM.
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  #40  
Old 12-08-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
HI Sclim:

So it was lifting the head to breathe, and possibly a long and/or late breath that triggered the imbalance lead to the stroke asymmetry - pressing down on the lead arm to buoyant the head - correct? That's actually the #1 problem for most swimmers, "lifting head to breath, long or late breathe a very close second. Good work fixing that issue, and is something we all have to maintain. Now back to lykthomas, what do you think is causing his imbalances that trigger all the extra movement below the surface.

Werner: I think you may be on to something, you're thinking outside the box :-)

ZT: I think you are much more capable than sarcasm, although I'll have to keep the busy floortilling jams the brain - hilarious.

More than one perspective, collective views certainly helps, some humor is always good too.
I shouldn't imply that it's fixed -- only the worst features rubbed off, but lots more work to replace it with a fundamentally solid form.

Back to our initial poster -- again back to basics, we see a short hard pull stroke with dropped elbow, coinciding with a hard overly bent-knee kick which gives a rapid acceleration and over-rotation followed by a stall which happens as the lead hand scoops slightly upwards. But as you say, these are scattered manifestations of something else.

I get the sense that he is not using the overhand recovery arm momentum much. I think most of us have deduced that he is lifting his elbow and arm upward in recovery pretty well in the midline, rather than outwards. If his drive in the kick came from the hip, or through the hip he might get more of a momentum in his recovery, which, coupled with a wider recovery path might allow him to enter further ahead and get more of a "downhill" hip drive action. Oh, I've got it; I was fooled by his lack of obvious back end sagging, but he is actually tail heavy, i.e. not balanced, and he is using his pull to briefly pull his front end down.
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