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  #11  
Old 04-25-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novaswimmer View Post
I think, and I might be wrong, that the term 'anchoring' just refers to a sensation that the 'pulling' arm should not just be slicing thru the water during the pulling phase, but should remain more or less 'motionless' in relation to the floor of the pool, while the body glides effortlessly over it. In other words, the 'anchoring' arm takes 'hold' of the water such that the body is the only thing moving in relation to the bottom of the pool.

If you were to do a time lapse during the pulling phase and marked the pulling arms location in relation to the bottom of the pool, it should be more or less at the same location.

Of course this will NEVER happen because every body -- even that of Shinji -- has at least SOME drag, which requires that the pulling arm has some 'slippage' thru the water ... yes, even the slightest bit. There can never be a perfectly anchored arm as long as there is a thing called 'drag' and as long as water is less dense than the ground, in my opinion.

I don't think -- and again I could be wrong -- that anchoring only refers to an early portion of the catch / pull phase.

The term 'anchor' can help some people. It certainly isn't a sensation that I have experienced in my own journey yet due to my higher level of drag -- which I'm working on!

Perhaps it will be something I'll feel in the future....as one evolves from the actual sensation of pulling to one of anchoring.

So in all that, I think it's semantics.
Actually, elite swimmers have so little slippage that their hand exits ahead of their entry point (using the pool as a reference grid). OK, maybe it's due to other factors other than less slippage than us mere mortals, but it's amazing to me that it can actually be done. BTW Colwyn makes a reference to this point in the article that ZT linked to.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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And, Danny, now that I have got into thinking of my shoulder girdle as a kayak paddle, I realise that this concept, in itself, does not help to distinguish the "pulling" concept from the "anchoring" concept. It all depends on your mental frame of reference.

For instance, you could be sitting in your kayak and be visualising sweeping the water backwards with your paddle. Or you could visualise the water as being the thick mud at the bottom, and you could plant your paddle in this thick medium and just pole your kayak forward. What different arm and trunk muscles would be used by this mental shift? None that I can see.

Of course, the efficient kayaker would stabilise the shoulder girdle on his trunk, then use trunk and core rotation to perform this action, which would thus become much more efficient. But he could do this whether paddling forwards, or with his kayak bolted down to a bracket on the bottom in a lab and actually paddling a plume of water backwards, so it's not as if the muscles change depending on which component is fixed and which moves.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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IN my last swim I concentrated on relaxed arm entry and moving my body past my imaginary supersize paddle and although a lot is only in the mind, it does work!
I think it mostly gives a more patient pulling arm.
When you imagine you are pulling your body past your anchored arm, you just wait a little longer until your arm finally is hooked in a strong position and then start to accelerate while the body accelerates its bodyroll. That extra bit of time is just enough to set the paddle in its optimal position and mentally focus on using it as pivot point, preparing the core muscles for the upcoming desired actions.
In that way it might stimulate using different muscles, although the differnce is subtle.
Switching between being relaxed one moment and tone the body to corkscrew it past that hand has to be done with just the right timing to get that wow factor.
I often find I take the tension from the arm in the pull along into the recovery and then suddenly realise I have to relax the arm there.
Repeating this relaxation -tension cycle over and over at a slow pace is often the best way to make it a habit.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-25-2015 at 02:48 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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In response to Novaswimmer's question, yes, anchoring is supposed to mean no slippage with the hand. The question is how to do this and what must be done to hinder this slippage.

As for the claim (which I have heard many times) that a good swimmer's hand exits at a point relative to the pool that is in front of where it went in, I am at a loss to explain the physics or hydrodynamics of this. Can anyone help? The article ZT posted claims that this is an indication that the swimmer is not losing momentum, which is hard to deny, but it also seems to indicate that his hand stroke may be slowing him down as opposed to propelling him forward.

The only explanation I can find for this is that the swimmer is sculling with his hand, in which case he gets propulsion without moving his hand backward. Are there any other factors to be taken into consideration?
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2015
Janos Janos is offline
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Danny, think about the hand entering the water at a particular spot, and then dropping into the pull position and then following that through 180 degrees until the hand re-emerges from the water.
If your progress from the pull is not very effective, your hand will indeed come out close to where you put it in.
However, if your hand enters the water and you kick effectively, and then follow with a hip drive against the catch, you will gain more impetus, and glide. Which means your body will be further down the pool relative to each stroke compared to less efficient technique. Hence the reason why we strive for a lower stroke count.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Looking at the entry and exit point of a hand is a very ineffective way of judging the slippage of the ^anchored^ hand.
After entry the hand moves forward a lot before any anchoring has taken place. A good kick and a long glide gives the hand a lot of forward movement before its taken out the water again.
Look at the bubble trail on his entering hands and how much the hand is dragged forward before the actual pulling begins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv_sDYHYzFw

Watching the handposition against the water or the tilebackground in a pool during it backwards pulling movement is the true accesment of slippage during the pull.
A good kick can improve the imaginary hold on the water if the arms just idle with the speed of the body, produced by the kick.
We have to put on fins to have an idea how that feels, but elite kickers have that kicking rear propulsion at their disposal.

Most swimmers pull with a dropped elbow, and this makes it more difficult to tell the mind that the arm is not slipping,
The slippage is so severe, that the mind cannot be fooled anymore.
Good swimmers also can have a partly dropped elbow, but often the rest of their stroke has good timing and kick so the downside isnt so obvious.
A straight arm is good enough to get the feeling of anchoring the arm I think, but the rest of the stroke must be pretty good also to make the mind believe the arm is anchored.
The arm shape does make a difference on the basic slippage, although it maybe shouldnt be the most important priority for learning swimmers.
just compare right and left arm slippage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDaPqesTws

if you have more issues with your stroke, the changes of having an anchored feeling are getting pretty small.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6s3BQFhLVU
Advicing to focus on a high elbow catch and pull here? Not the first thing on the list probably.(but would make live a lot easier. also for this swimmer. Now he pushes down with a big paddle and backwards with a small one. Not the best combination)

On the other end of the spectrum, if you have good balance, streamline and a straight bodyline, a pretty good anchoring of the arm is possible, even without extreme armpositions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV83Tkq_WB4

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-25-2015 at 04:23 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2015
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
In response to Novaswimmer's question, yes, anchoring is supposed to mean no slippage with the hand. The question is how to do this and what must be done to hinder this slippage.

As for the claim (which I have heard many times) that a good swimmer's hand exits at a point relative to the pool that is in front of where it went in, I am at a loss to explain the physics or hydrodynamics of this. Can anyone help? The article ZT posted claims that this is an indication that the swimmer is not losing momentum, which is hard to deny, but it also seems to indicate that his hand stroke may be slowing him down as opposed to propelling him forward.

The only explanation I can find for this is that the swimmer is sculling with his hand, in which case he gets propulsion without moving his hand backward. Are there any other factors to be taken into consideration?
How about some distance contribution from the kick?
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2015
sojomojo sojomojo is offline
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This thread on “anchoring and pulling” made me recall a YouTube video by Coach Suzanne Atkinson that was very helpful to me. I still take time to do the “swing push drill” since I always regress back to pulling too hard and too fast with my arm. One of these days, I’m going to break that habit and learn to always gently PUSH the water.

https://youtu.be/JeHQyqI7zq0

4:00 Catch & Pull (PUSH the water, not PULL)

5:40 Creating an Anchor
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  #19  
Old 04-25-2015
Danny Danny is offline
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Good point, ZT, there's a lot of forward arm motion after the hand enters the water.
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2015
Streak Streak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojomojo View Post
This thread on “anchoring and pulling” made me recall a YouTube video by Coach Suzanne Atkinson that was very helpful to me. I still take time to do the “swing push drill” since I always regress back to pulling too hard and too fast with my arm. One of these days, I’m going to break that habit and learn to always gently PUSH the water.

https://youtu.be/JeHQyqI7zq0

4:00 Catch & Pull (PUSH the water, not PULL)

5:40 Creating an Anchor
Brilliant video. This will be my focus for my next swim. Very guilty of pulling with too much power.
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