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  #1  
Old 07-08-2018
bujanglokal
 
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Default Holding a ball of water molecule (catch) and shoulder strain

How to minimize shoulder strain when trying to hold the ball of water molecule evf catch?
Should you feel the strain or it is due to doing it wrong?

I've also tried to do it the more simple way as instructed in one of coach DShen's youtube, by just rolling the thumb (and palm) downward, hence it will automatically roll the elbow outward, but I'm not sure it's effective, so I want to do the hold the ball things properly.

Thanks

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Take it with the counter rotation
ie extend & glide and tip you fingers down slighty and wait until you start rolling to the other side to make the high elbow catch
you have to wait until something is rolling you off ie recovery arm / counter rotation

trying to swan arm it on the extention is asking for shoulder strain

no you shouldnt be coming away from swimming in pain, if you are your tecnique is wrong as you must very quickly analyse where
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  #3  
Old 07-08-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Here:

https://youtu.be/tDmQiHQ8mW8
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2018
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 604
CoachDavidShen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujanglokal View Post
How to minimize shoulder strain when trying to hold the ball of water molecule evf catch?
Should you feel the strain or it is due to doing it wrong?

I've also tried to do it the more simple way as instructed in one of coach DShen's youtube, by just rolling the thumb (and palm) downward, hence it will automatically roll the elbow outward, but I'm not sure it's effective, so I want to do the hold the ball things properly.

Thanks

Thanks
Hey CoachDShen here - thanks for watching my video!

Can you tell me when in the stroke you are forming the catch? The earlier you form the catch prior to body rotation to the other side, the higher the pressure will be on the shoulder joint.

As mushroomfloat mentions with Coach Dave Cameron's video, we have found that forming a true EVF catch is better during the switch and as you are spearing, and rotating to the other side. It puts your shoulder in a more optimal position for creating an EVF shape without putting so much stress on the shoulder.

Having said the above, good shoulder mobility and stability is essential for doing things like the EVF. If you are limited in either, then note that EVF isn't really necessary for swimming, nor swimming pretty fast. EVF is really about optimizing swimming for that last bit of speed after you've maxed out everything else. I wouldn't worry about it so much if you're still in the learning stages.

So forming a good catch isn't necessarily about true EVF - are you feeling pressure even forming a non-true EVF catch?
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https://www.coachdshen.com/blog/
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2018
bujanglokal
 
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Thanks for the reply mushroomfloat and coach DShen.

Most probably I've tried to form the catch too early as I'm still has to think and 'prepare' to form it. I will try to postpone it a little bit and timed it with the spearing/body roll.
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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if you can feel the weight of the recovery arm as it comes over on the underwater spearing arm you can use it to time your catch.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2018
borate borate is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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borate
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZXX9XHx0mM
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2018
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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fooboo
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Early Vertical Forarm is opposite to Total Immersion very idea. Quite popular
among elite swimmers, but if you're not, you loose nothing.
One has to do an anchor, or catch or vertical forearm, sooner or later.
I do it later. In previous life, with EVF, I had shoulder pain. Nowadays,
I anchor when I already rotated, no stress on shoulder included. Yep,
that Cameron video shows everything.
Good thing is to anchor with whole body, not just arm. It takes time to
develop.
Best regards.
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2018
liolio
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooboo View Post
Early Vertical Forarm is opposite to Total Immersion very idea. Quite popular
among elite swimmers, but if you're not, you loose nothing.
One has to do an anchor, or catch or vertical forearm, sooner or later.
I do it later. In previous life, with EVF, I had shoulder pain. Nowadays,
I anchor when I already rotated, no stress on shoulder included. Yep,
that Cameron video shows everything.
Good thing is to anchor with whole body, not just arm. It takes time to
develop.
Best regards.
Something is pretty clear to me EVF means a lot of humerus internal rotation. I'm trying to move away from that temptation => as much as possible arm external rotation and forearm rotation it is a weird reference but the cinetic chain is really "nazi" like ...
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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yes it is internal roation and it comes down to what you can stand,
for a safer relaxed swim taking the catch with the counter rotation is less stressfull on the shoulder.

EVF can be done and i have purposely extended into a glide ending in internal rotation to set the EVF and it was fast! but after a few swims and doing the same on breaststroke i could feel that it wasnt something i wanted to continue doing.

Dave Camerons "10 degree trick" works well and minimises internal rotation by just a small adduction / thumb pitch down 10 degrees.
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