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  #31  
Old 03-08-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoiscathy View Post
Not much development on the breathing front per se, but I think my left spear should have improved. I didn't get to record myself because the pool was so full, but I'll get to see it soon anyway because I'll be recorded again tomorrow morning :)

To be fair, I must add that a huge part of my stroke has happened because of my Coach, Johnny Widén!

To your earlier comment, Werner:



When I was doing whale eye today I tried to really let that sink in. I enjoyed the stereoscopic view and saw just how close the surface really is. Hopefully tomorrow, or very soon.
You just need to spear higher
Your deep arms are catching frontal drag and this is pulling you down deeper
This is where your bobbing is coming from

You are being pulled deeper by oncoming water pressure hitting the steep angle of your lead arm
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Floating Shrooms, what are your credentials to talk to people like that, and constantly? Even after Coaches' comments, you just go ahead and throw in your $0.02. See for instance this one was rather arrogant. I was shocked!

Are you sure it's okay and nice to do this regularly, even when a Coach just commented before you? May I see your video please?

I'm sure you know something. Like I do, I also know something, I'm a structural engineer. Incidentally, with a PhD in engineering. Not to brag but I also have some idea about things when it comes to mechanics, yet I rather just listen because I don't have the credentials to act like I'm a besserwisser when one can look at my video and they can see I'm just a nobody. For now.

On deep spearing: I could quote but just off the top of my head, by spearing deep you actually reduce overall drag because your legs would be higher so you reduce drag where it really matters (on the quads).

Yes, you may or may not have a point to some extent; I'm also sure that I do have some frontal drag from that. However, I also talked to David Shen over facebook and he told me a couple other things that may contribute to my head bobbing. You didn't pick up on those details. Interestingly, he didn't mention deep spearing. He mentioned several things I'm working on, and I was super grateful. I must add that with all his expertise he was much humbler than you so far.

Yesterday when I posted my video I was genuinely hoping that you'd skip it. I've read too many of these from you. You don't know me because I post very little but I've seen you throwing these kind of comments everywhere.

I just didn't want to be bashed by you. And then I log in again... I'm a beginner with a 4 month swimming history, I'd never swum before, and what do I see from you? I quote, "not bad but". Aha... no, thanks. Just... no. Please. Can you be just a tad kinder? More respectful?

Or just ignore me, really. I'm fine with that. Thanks.
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2018
IngeA IngeA is offline
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Are you exhaling under water? I can't see any bubbles in the video, but maybe it's the fault of my old screen of the computer.

I also had problems with breathing. One thing was that I didn't exhale under water. So the time to get air was too short because I had to exhale and inhale when I turned the head.
Some time I took a snorkel and then tried to imitate the rhythm of exhaling and inhaling without water in the mouth and coughing.

The other thing was that my core stability broke down the moment I turned the head to breathe. This was something that got better itself with more experience.

4 months is a very short time to learn a new stroke and yours look really very good. I doubt that my stroke looked like this after 4 months. I'm sure you will easily learn to breathe when you have capacities to concentrate on breathing. At the moment all of the stroke is new, it's too much to concentrate an all focal points at one time.

Best regards
Inge
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  #34  
Old 03-09-2018
Danny Danny is offline
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There are two different ways to learn swimming, and I am about to offer an alternative which many people may be horrified at. If you look at most reasonably effective free-stylers, who can swim distance comfortably, the large majority of them raise their head when breathing. This is a terrible no-no in TI for good reasons: it slows you down and makes your stroke less efficient. On the other hand, it may be a reasonable alternative to drowning.

Unlike you, Cathy, I didn't actually see film of myself doing freestyle until I had been already swimming for a number of years. The first thing I noticed when I saw that film was that I was raising my head while breathing. Since then I have been working on correcting this process, and I am making some reasonable progress, as evidenced by the fact that I now can create a bow wave when I swim. By the time I started working on this issue, I already had a number of other things internalized to the point where I didn't have to feel like I was drowning in the process. Instead I could work on it in an evolutionary fashion that didn't stress me out.

There is an old saying "Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good" Sometimes perfectionists have the hardest time learning freestyle because they get hung up on things that can impede their progress in other directions. Put another way, there is a time and place to correct every error in your stroke. I don't claim to know, but you may be choosing the wrong time to work on this one. Just a humble suggestion...
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  #35  
Old 03-09-2018
Danny Danny is offline
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Just for the sake of clarity, here is a way to breath which is bad swimming technique, but otherwise quite comfortable. Don't look at this as what you are ultimately aiming for, but rather an interim technique. If you can teach yourself to do this well, you can work on correct breathing technique slowly in an evolutionary fashion. Other people may claim it is better to learn things right the first time, but there is (to me at least) an apparent contradiction in this claim. None of us swim perfectly. Even Terry Laughlin admitted to having problems he was still working on. But that didn't stop him from swimming and setting world records. So here goes:

When it is time to breath, make sure the palm of your forward hand is horizontal to the surface of the water. Do not spear deep, but rather aim shallow. The horizontal palm provides more water resistance to sinking. It will help you to raise your head when you want to breath. When it is time to breath, do not look down at the bottom of the pool. Instead look forward, because this will automatically tend to raise your head. Then when you role to breath, use that extended arm and flat palm to support yourself so your mouth comes out of the water. You will have to play around with this, but I find it makes breathing much easier.

It is also heresy, a lesson in how not to swim TI. If you decide to reject it outright, don't feel bad in telling me. Like I said, just a modest proposal...
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IngeA View Post
Are you exhaling under water? I can't see any bubbles in the video, but maybe it's the fault of my old screen of the computer.

I also had problems with breathing. One thing was that I didn't exhale under water. So the time to get air was too short because I had to exhale and inhale when I turned the head.
Some time I took a snorkel and then tried to imitate the rhythm of exhaling and inhaling without water in the mouth and coughing.

The other thing was that my core stability broke down the moment I turned the head to breathe. This was something that got better itself with more experience.

4 months is a very short time to learn a new stroke and yours look really very good. I doubt that my stroke looked like this after 4 months. I'm sure you will easily learn to breathe when you have capacities to concentrate on breathing. At the moment all of the stroke is new, it's too much to concentrate an all focal points at one time.
Hi Inge,

Thanks!
I also felt I was turning into a banana every time I attempted to breathe. It wasn't a head lift. I think I knew I "shouldn't" lift the head, so instead I turned into a banana. Something to work on.

It's indeed too much in such a short time. I can't wrap my head around how people learn to swim TI in a weekend workshop, whatever that means (from zero? Good TI in a weekend?) because it's been oh, so many things.

I'm a true beginner: Johnny doesn't even have a before movie of me because I flat out refused to swim, saying that "I don't know how to swim FS", which was the case. Even just 7 weeks ago, I emailed him that I realized I was actually uncomfortable being face down in the deep end. Ha.
So, yes, breathing the TI way may be indeed a bit premature for me.

I didn't exhale in the first half of the video, or maybe a bit. I exhaled rather erratically in the second half. I think. Hard to know because I've gotten used to swimming on one breath (one length is easy). So now I need to train myself to exhale. It's funny because when I do drills I exhale, but not in whole stroke.

Thank you for the compliment!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
(...) an alternative which many people may be horrified at (...) raise their head when breathing. This is a terrible no-no in TI for good reasons: it slows you down and makes your stroke less efficient. On the other hand, it may be a reasonable alternative to drowning.

(...) I was raising my head while breathing. (...) By the time I started working on this issue, I already had a number of other things internalized to the point where I didn't have to feel like I was drowning in the process.

(...) perfectionists have the hardest time learning freestyle because they get hung up on things that can impede their progress in other directions. Put another way, there is a time and place to correct every error in your stroke. I don't claim to know, but you may be choosing the wrong time to work on this one (...).

(...) rather an interim technique. If you can teach yourself to do this well, you can work on correct breathing technique slowly in an evolutionary fashion. Other people may claim it is better to learn things right the first time, but there is (to me at least) an apparent contradiction in this claim. (...)

It is also heresy, a lesson in how not to swim TI.
Hi Danny,

Thanks for the suggestions! See my response to Inge regarding the timing. Perhaps it's indeed too early for me to get hung up on The Proper TI Breathing. I tend to be a perfectionist... I've already hung up on so many things mid stroke. LOL

We swam again just 6 days after that (meaning I got recorded again, why not) and I really think it went better. Nicer recovery, left spear was better, rotation was snappier, and my patient hand timing was better, I think. (Could be all subjective; Johnny hasn't commented yet.) Head wasn't bobbing a lot. Only thing that was "worse" was my kick - somewhat bigger, at least when it wasn't my FP. Overall I felt I swam better. May share later. So much better that I felt that soon enough I might be ready for the "proper" breathing rehearsals.

However, my priority is also to get air one way or another, for now anyway, so I'll try your suggestions if I can't take a "proper" breath tomorrow again. Unfortunately I notice real time when I lift my head so it bugs me if I do, but I'll probably try it anyway and see. Or overrotate and turn my face to the ceiling, for now. I'll just have to remind myself not to get stuck there but look at it as an inbetween step. Thanks again!

Last edited by whoiscathy : 03-11-2018 at 07:17 PM.
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  #37  
Old 03-11-2018
whoiscathy
 
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This is a status report from 24 January 2018:

"I had bad balance today, for some reason. I also felt my head was so low somehow that there was no way for me to ever breathe; I somehow felt I was "buried" in the water because my head was low but so was all my body, my hips, my legs. Like I could barely clear a shoulder, that's what I was feeling like. Like I couldn't even rotate enough.
Dafuq???

This sinking feeling made me not be able to recover my left arm AT ALL at some point. My left arm just wouldn't move anymore, as if my body had said, we're sinkiiiiinggg, forget arms, keep the arm near the body, don't lift it up, Jesus, we're sinkiiiin. Why :O

Only difference was that I was in the deep end of the pool. I had to realize I am NOT comfortable face down in the deep end. Weird realization; I've thought all this time I was! And it isn't so deep in that pool anyway."
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2018
IngeA IngeA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoiscathy View Post
I had to realize I am NOT comfortable face down in the deep end. Weird realization; I've thought all this time I was! And it isn't so deep in that pool anyway."
When I had problems with breathing, exactly this was the reason.
It took some time until I realised it, because I had no breathing problems before and before also I never felt uneasy in water. Not in deep water, not in currents, not in mountain rivers. I remarked that I had no breathing problems in shallow water.

It took some time to overcome this uneasiness. Many drills I did in the kiddy pool, there I felt safe and had no problems with breathing. And also I forced me to properly exhale. And I also slowed down my breathing rhythm from every other stroke to all four strokes.

And something else:
This is the normal happening when learning something new. There always comes a point where it seems that all you have learnt has gone. Keep up trying and don't be frustrated. Your skills will reappear :o)

Best regards
Inge

Last edited by IngeA : 03-11-2018 at 06:58 PM.
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  #39  
Old 03-12-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Cathy,

Quote:
This is a status report from 24 January 2018:...
My calendar shows March 12th now. Seems there is a misunderstanding on my side. Can't find anything of this status report in your video. This can only show your huge improvement compared to this status!

Otherwise, if these things sneaked in again I'd suggest: Take a walk through all fundamental skills/drills... One after the other. This will become a fast walk.

And most important: Stay generous to yourself: Take only one FP at time and enjoy it with all your heart...

Best regards,
Werner
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  #40  
Old 03-12-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Oh, I posted it to illustrate just how bad at some point -- just a couple of weeks ago -- it felt.

The video you've already seen was recorded recently.

Here's something from around the time of that "status report", the very end of January. Almost embarrassing, and as you can see I was really embarrassed during the recording because I just couldn't do a thing. Shaking my head several times. Haha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Cathy,

My calendar shows March 12th now. Seems there is a misunderstanding on my side. Can't find anything of this status report in your video. This can only show your huge improvement compared to this status!

Otherwise, if these things sneaked in again I'd suggest: Take a walk through all fundamental skills/drills... One after the other. This will become a fast walk.

And most important: Stay generous to yourself: Take only one FP at time and enjoy it with all your heart...

Best regards,
Werner
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