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  #1  
Old 05-27-2016
drtse drtse is offline
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drtse
Default Swim Video Analysis from a non-TI coach

I had a coaching session with a local triathlon coach several months ago who's main pointers for me were:

1) develop a consistent stronger 6 beat kick to help lift my sinky hips and legs
2) work on a better early vertical forearm to replace my straight arm pull especially on my left side
3) gliding too long with my spearing arm

Here's the video analysis:
http://www.ignition-fitness.com/keit...videos-dec-06/

password: KTDEC06

I'd appreciate insight from forum members here if you have the time! Thx in advance!

I've since attended a TI workshop in April and my main focal points were to:
1) work on head position (mine was turning back into the water too deeply after a breath),
2) extending the spearing arm further out and feeling the stretch in the arm pit
3) being more patient with the extended arm during my breath,
4) keeping my (marionnette) arm more relaxed

Although there was video analysis for the TI workshop, we were not given the video after the workshop unfortunately. Would have been nice to compare my stroke against the December swim analysis.
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtse View Post
I had a coaching session with a local triathlon coach several months ago who's main pointers for me were:

1) develop a consistent stronger 6 beat kick to help lift my sinky hips and legs
2) work on a better early vertical forearm to replace my straight arm pull especially on my left side
3) gliding too long with my spearing arm

Here's the video analysis:
http://www.ignition-fitness.com/keit...videos-dec-06/

password: KTDEC06

I'd appreciate insight from forum members here if you have the time! Thx in advance!

I've since attended a TI workshop in April and my main focal points were to:
1) work on head position (mine was turning back into the water too deeply after a breath),
2) extending the spearing arm further out and feeling the stretch in the arm pit
3) being more patient with the extended arm during my breath,
4) keeping my (marionnette) arm more relaxed

Although there was video analysis for the TI workshop, we were not given the video after the workshop unfortunately. Would have been nice to compare my stroke against the December swim analysis.
Who did your workshop? Most coaches will upload their athletes videos to dropbox or a similar service for a period of time afterwards. Going forward, it's required of all listed workshops that the videos be available for a calendar year. Try contacting yoru coach again for the video.

I'd be happy to look at a 1 minute clip, but the 16 minute review si a bit daunting. However based on the first 2 sentences your coach wrote (we worked on kicking and you're a strong guy so you need to learn to swim with your upper body) is the antithesis of what TI coaches teach and believe about efficient swimming.

use your core and integrate kick and catch into a whole body movement. See Terry's most recent blog here:
http://www.totalimmersion.net/blog/t...imming-faster/
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Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #3  
Old 05-27-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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As a struggler with sinky legs myself, I find the TI approach ultimately most effective (although I'm not fully there yet myself). Work on balance, push down your front end to lift legs. It is unrealistic to kick hard enough to keep your legs at the surface (although the advice to keep the foot boundary outline small and compact in your kick is sound, to minimise drag). It is interesting that in his treatment of the problem, the concept of balance did not seem to enter the picture at all. I had forgotten what an outlier the TI method and approach is -- having worked with it on myself for so long it seems amazing that anyone could look at a back heavy person and not see the problem immediately as a balance issue with the fix also coming from addressing the balance with appropriate drills.

The lack of high elbow/vertical forearm in your pull is flagged accurately enough, but his description seems really wooly and all over the place, and hard to follow. Rather than describing your wrist in your forearm pull as not fast enough moving backwards relative to your elbow, I would have pointed out that your lats pull is really strong, in fact too strong for your elbow to withstand, and that's why your elbow collapses and spills out the water from under your forearm which has become horizontal, dragging behind the elbow. He may have set up some dryland drills with you to rehearse the correct elbow position, which is great, but some advice to back off on the strength of the pull until you can control the elbow position might have been helpful.

Also I wouldn't share his optimism that if you fixed your front end with a solid high elbow pull that would fix the back end and drag your legs up. I think the sinky legs has to be addressed directly, i.e. drills to develop fore-aft balance.

These insights didn't come immediately, in fact some of the TI ideas are rather counter intuitive; however they have really been driven home into my reality system by working hard on my problems, and also sometimes by working counterproductively, because I initially got hold of the wrong idea (but suddenly improved rapidly, once I grasped the correct concept).

Last edited by sclim : 05-28-2016 at 04:04 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-27-2016
descending descending is offline
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descending
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I hope that lesson was free. Like you won it in a raffle at a race or something? There is 16 minutes I can never get back darn that was painful to listen to. Not at all b/c of the swimmer, but b/c of the diagnosis and remedies offered.

I would highly recommend grabbing a seasoned TI coach or buying the materials and sticking to it pretty much forgetting nearly everything covered in that video. Great that you have attende a clinic, but keep after it with coaching. Truly. Or if you can find a top notch club coach or Masters coach that is good too. None of the problems you have are unfixable or uncommon so be encouraged in that sense. The guy commentating may be a great athlete, but his understanding of cause and effect in the water is just so wrong. Do you live in a major metropolitan area with swim club teams? Your big issue is body position and that will be fixed by learning how to control your balance and buoyancy variables they are slihgtly different with each swimmer. Once you learn to balance those things a great deal of your leg profile will clean up. Kicking more or harder isn't how you go about fixing it. There are zero swim coaches anywhere with an ounce of coaching pedigree who will advocate kicking more to fix a poor body position. TI nails this perfectly. Until you get that problem fixed no amount of catch and pull/breathing tweaks are going to amount to a hill of beans. If my coach had you this morning you wouldn't even be taking any strokes simply learning how to achieve balance with arms at the sides there is a method to the madness. Sounds like you had a good TI clinic.....stick with that. You won't regret TI's approach to discovering how to control your body and limbs. No one and I mean no one swims well w/o good balance control. Have fun and enjoy the process!

Last edited by descending : 05-27-2016 at 11:44 AM.
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  #5  
Old 05-27-2016
ti97
 
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I'm not going to knock the coach because splayed legs certainly mess up streamline....but I don't agree that a stronger kick will get you streamlined....the compact shoebox is a valid point

I don't like one-sided breathing because it causes/aggravates balance issues....it looks to me that although you roll, you also have a lift to your head which won't allow your legs to surface enough...work on bilateral breathing, it will help with balance

he did point out to be aware that your 'paddle' is not only your hand but your entire forearm....a dropped elbow is similar to 'petting a dog' on its back...it doesn't get water traction

just keep training and you'll get the 'aha' moment
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  #6  
Old 05-27-2016
ti97
 
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PS to above...if you need the air then you could breathe 2 or 3 to the right, followed by 2 or 3 to the left....but you need to get comfortable breathing on both sides i think it will help straighten you out
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2016
drtse drtse is offline
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Thanks for the advice so far!

I feel most comfortable breathing every other stroke to the right side...I am able to get a bite of air without rushing or feeling anxious. I practice some left sided breathing but tend to rush the stroke, lift my head significantly worse than the right and overall it just seems to worsen my balance and whole stroke. So basically I'm trying to "master" the right side first before doing too much with the left.

Whenever I've tried to kick more strongly, I have not noticed any appreciable gain in speed per 100m and end up feeling more winded. And forget about kick board work I've done in the past...I end up going nowhere!

I've tried 3 different swim coaches up here in Toronto, Canada. All of them have prescribed more or less the same thing...particularly the kick more advice. I wish there was a TI coach based in our city but there isn't so the past 2 years I've been working with TI videos, ebooks and Terry's latest workbook. I've come a long way but get frustrated that despite my fitness level my swim speed has not improved as much as I expected. I at least find it easier to swim which in itself is an achievement of sorts.

I believe my Superman glide and Torpedo position in the water is fine. It's the addition of the arms and then the head rotation that really throws me for a loop.

I attended the TI workshop in Buffalo with Coach Gary Fahey. Great experience but I think I need to have some consistent one-on-one coaching with a TI coach in order to get where I want to be.
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  #8  
Old 05-27-2016
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtse View Post
I attended the TI workshop in Buffalo with Coach Gary Fahey. Great experience but I think I need to have some consistent one-on-one coaching with a TI coach in order to get where I want to be.
I think you can set up online coaching with a TI coach here on the TI website. From what I've seen of how helpful and insightful the coaches are on this forum (Coach Stuart, Coach Suzanne, others) that might be a good option for you.

Someone posted an annotated video on this forum (can't remember where?) with Coach Stuart giving advice so you could get some idea what that might be like.
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  #9  
Old 05-27-2016
ti97
 
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slip on some short fins, roll on your side bottom arm leading, top arm resting along your top side, hand by hip and practice breathing by swiveling your head from looking at the pool bottom and then up to get air....do it on both sides...take arms out of the picture and get comfortable with bilateral breathing
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  #10  
Old 05-28-2016
descending descending is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtse View Post

I've tried 3 different swim coaches up here in Toronto, Canada. All of them have prescribed more or less the same thing...particularly the kick more advice.
Curious were these prior coaches who are actively coaching squads of kids? Masters coaches? That is shocking someone of that pedigree isn't picking up on the basics of body position and how to achieve it. Or were they from some other background? I know Canada has crazy fast swimmers and they didn't get that way by accident maybe the club coaching carousel is different there than here in the US? If you can find a club coach with a proven pedigree it's worth it's weight in gold they will teach you the exact same principles of balance and core control you learn with TI it's just a basic fundamental of good swimming. The way they approach the recovery, catch and pull might vary as well as the kick choices though from TI. You will get it stick with it!

If you have not tried a club coach don't be afraid to ask them for a lesson slot. They make hardly any money and at least in my area area are always thrilled to have some extra ways to make money. Eyes on the pool deck from someone who has literally spent thousands of hours critiquing strokes is invaluable. It's not cheap, but no more than what you paid for that lesson. A great athlete does not equate to being a great coach. A coach who has a resume of kids and adults you can talk to is the kind you want to find. If they don't have anyone you can talk to about 'how did it work for you' then keep looking b/c the proof is in the pudding. You will get even faster results than joining a Masters squad. You learn the same stuff, but it's 1 on 1 so the uptake and Q & A is so much better. The transformations I've seen in people on our own squad who pay for 1 on 1 with the university and club coaches is amazing.

Last edited by descending : 05-28-2016 at 02:24 PM.
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