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  #1  
Old 01-05-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Default Rest & Hard Work & Recovery for "Old Farts" - Any exercise physiologists out there?

As a 54 yr. old swimmer working toward 14 weeks of very focused and systematically harder training, I was wondering if anyone had ideas about rest @ recovery for "older" (HATE that term, even if it's true). During these next 14 weeks, it is my intention at the height of hard training in weeks 5-8 to swim 5 swim practices between 3 and 6km. Some will be with greater intensity than others and there will be easier days after hard days.

Hard sets may include: 9 x 300 easy, medium,hard- currently a hard repeat would be 3:45-3:50, medium 3:55-4:00, easy 4:10 - 4:20
Question: am I better of doing these @ 5min or 6min?

All ideas will be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2012
dshen dshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian mac View Post
As a 54 yr. old swimmer working toward 14 weeks of very focused and systematically harder training, I was wondering if anyone had ideas about rest @ recovery for "older" (HATE that term, even if it's true). During these next 14 weeks, it is my intention at the height of hard training in weeks 5-8 to swim 5 swim practices between 3 and 6km. Some will be with greater intensity than others and there will be easier days after hard days.

Hard sets may include: 9 x 300 easy, medium,hard- currently a hard repeat would be 3:45-3:50, medium 3:55-4:00, easy 4:10 - 4:20
Question: am I better of doing these @ 5min or 6min?

All ideas will be greatly appreciated.
i'm approaching old fart (46 yo!) and have been experiencing the natural decline of recovery speed as i age. so i have some thoughts about it.

before i post some thoughts, it seems like you are asking two questions: 1 about recovery and 1 about intensity of practice?

also is there a reason for the hard training, like are you preparing for a race?
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Yes, I am preparing for the Ontario Masters Swimming championships the last week of March. Longer term I am looking forward to both next year's Nationals when I shall be 55 and the World championships in 2014 in Montreal.

And yes to both intensity - how often, and recovery. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Ian
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default Old Fart at 54??????

There are a few of us on this forum who may take exception to the terms used.
If they are seen as such for 54 how does one 65 or in their 70's even reconcile waking up in the morning.

On a more serious note, being 65 and having made the commitment to increase speed and distance this year I am faced with much the same question.
Last week I swam three days in a row and Monday found my body telling me it was time to take a break. Took two days off went back to the pool and next session did 45 minutes of drill and focal points.

This AM worked on increasing distance while maintaining SPL at or below what I am comfortable with. My goal right now is to develop neural circuits which will allow me to swim at a tempo of 1.2 while maintaining SPLs.

My duration and repeats are based on two factors.

The first being if I can hold my focus and stroke count down at 1.2. Working on the 75m threshold now. Several months ago 25m at 1.5 seemed a challenge.

The second being if I feel any excessive muscle fatigue or soreness in the shoulder area I stop and will work on balance drills.

Bottom line is I listen to my body. That is not to say just because I feel a little gased I can call it a day. I do not believe there is any one formula to answer your question. Especially for us ....



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  #5  
Old 01-06-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Yup, listen to the body, whatever you do. I'm 50 and preparing for a 300-km bike ride in 6 months, and using swimming as cross-training. Right now, it's all easy paces, but I'm riding or swimming 6 days a week and lifting weights 3x a week (on non-ride days). The intensity and length of training will be ramped up slowly.

At my age, I find it's always my "weakest link" that gives up first, although everything else feels great. In swimming, it's my left shoulder. In cycling, it's my left hamstring. In running, my right knee (though I'm not running right now). During recovery periods, I really watch them closely.
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Old 01-06-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Ian, how well versed are you on nutrition and fluid planning before during and after a hard training session. I am not an expert but I have family members who work with olympians and the advice they give me is getting the fluid right is key to fast recovery.

We were talking about it at Christmas and he mentioned two water molecules bonding with one carbohydrate and the need for sugar straight after exercise but not after 30 minutes? I can ask him for more details if you need them but if you already have a good idea on this stuff then I'll leave it and ask him next time I see him.

I also read a fascinating book on endurance training that had some interesting ideas on food types in relation to exercise. Slow burn by Stu Mittleman

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slow-Burn-Fa...5882382&sr=1-2
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Old 01-06-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Ian,

While I am not a physiologist, I have taken masters level courses in exercise physiology (possilby on the way to a masters level degree). Given my background in general physiology/anatomy, etc. I feel pretty comfortable with most things a physiologist would be asked of.

it seems as the stated question you post has to do with how much rest you need between your 300s? and that the suggested set you have would be 3 rounds of 3 x 300 1 each easy/med/hard?

And that these sets would be done in weeks 5-8 which sounds like the "hardest" weeks of training you have planned over the next 14 weeks?

Why the hardest work a full 6 weeks out from the race? Is there another benefit or adaptation you are looking to get during that time? I specific physiologic component?

What is your current trainnig adn your training in weeks 1-4? What kind of training were you able to sustain in previous years leading up to the same event?

Will this next 14 weeks be a proposed significant increase over previous recent years or less? have you had difficult recovering in the past?

How did you choose the distances & # practices per week that you mentioned?


These questions...not your age...will determine the "best" approach for you or anyone to take.

Finally, I'm sure you've read it, but browse some of Terry's posts in the "favorite sets" forum, for some of his ideas on specific approaches to race day.

What is your target race/races, do you have a target time, do you have an idea of what tempo & SPL you'll need to hit those times?
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2012
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian mac View Post
All ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Choose two periods a week, between 30 and 40 minutes total duration, during which you work at your neural limits - combinations of SPL and Tempo that are as close as possible to what you project will be required to accomplish your race goals.

These sets will be metabolically very demanding.

Virtually everything you do between those two bouts of effortful swimming should be aimed at restoration -- so you are physically and neurally ready to swim at your best when it's time to do the next set.

I trained this way from Jan - Apr 2006 - after reading an article by Jonty Skinner on the USA Swimming web site in which he said, in essence, "Once you're fit aerobic training can not make you fitter. At that point, its purpose is restoration for the physical demands of sets that condition you neurally for what you hope to do in the race."

It was eye-opening. I was swimming with Masters and saw that everyone in the pool was training wrong. They all went a bit too hard all the time, to ever have the ability to do a true quality effort. I was regularly beaten by most of the people in the pool on most of our sets - while I was being very disciplined about limiting my effort.

When we tapered I outswam all of them - and not by a little.

I also turned back the clock on my times 14 years.
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2012
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
What is your target race/races, do you have a target time, do you have an idea of what tempo & SPL you'll need to hit those times?
Bingo. Know what those are, then devote yourself to hardwiring them. Everything else is secondary.
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Default Great Advice

Thanks Terry, Suzanne & Andy,
You have all helped me gain some great insights:
1.TERRY- I really like the idea of the hard wiring in two 30/40 minute sessions per week.
2. Suzanne - if you look at my posts under "Formula for a faster 1500/1650 you can see where I am in my conditioning.
3. Andy - thanks for re-enforcing the ideas regarding nutrition and fluids.

Being part of the TI family, one can always find inspiration.
Ian
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