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  #31  
Old 07-01-2017
a16ksb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello a16ksb,


Don't understand what you mean, sorry...

If you turn your chin together with the shoulder to your breathing side, you should be ready to inhale as soon as your mouth cleared the surface, and latest to turn your face back to neutral is, when you see your recovery arm. It's like a curtain turning your face back (latest, back to neutral earlier, your stroke will be disturbed less by breathing...)



Neither hold your air nore push your exhale (only in the last hundredth second before inhaling...)

What I think is really important in longer terms: Train your breathing on both sides. Be more aware to train your felt weak side a little bit more. It's not necessary to breath alternating. One lap right side, next lap left side... and sometimes an extra lap on your weak side will be OK.

If you don't imprint breathing on both sides right now, you'll have a much harder time later, if you have to learn your weak side from ground on, while you'd like to focus in other parts in your stroke.


Yes it does, so it misses the other hand's entry, what we count as a stroke too. It will help, if you count your strokes by yourself, because the garmin is not as exact and +-one and a half stroke doees matter (sometimes).

Enjoy and best regards,
Werner
Sorry for my poor explanation, what I was trying to explain is unitaleral breathing, i.e. I always breath on the same side
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  #32  
Old 07-01-2017
Abdargush
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Can you give a short summary of that article?
Here you are (in German).
https://www.bisp-surf.de/Record/PU199112052454

There might be other summaries on the web if one searches well enough. Otherwise, the original paper might be obtained from the journal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
My totally unscientific experience (n = about 10) with asian people in the pool is that they follow the cliche that they are committed to the task and hard working, but make for slow and slightly frustrated swimmers, doing a lot of pulling and kicking without much result.
Are you suggesting that all Asians are bad at swimming? If not, why write it?
Your statement can be seen as despising and IS utterly absurd. In almost all A finals/semi-finals in world-class competitions, there is at least one said "Asian". I would use here the same comment as for said "Blacks". Who is able to divide the mankind in defined groups such as "Whites" and "Asians", anyway?

Have you considered swapping the qualifier "Asian" with "Hispanic", "Dutch", "Rich", "Poor", "Women", "White collar", "Blue collar", etc. or even "White"? If one honestly does that, the same "unscientific experience" happens, because you are omitting the whole population. What you present as your sample experience is not representative of the whole population (and omits other factors too).

Sorry if that seems harsh and long, but I think it is good to put things strait and stop disseminating demeaning posts, especially in a popular forum such as this one. Again, it does not serve the swimming community.
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  #33  
Old 07-01-2017
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
... As Terry says: You can't inhale too early...
Weeeell, not if your mouth is in the air you can't but otherwise ..? ;) :D

For me, not breathing underwater is actually a key. I've learnt that while whatever I want to do my body tries to do there are limits. What I want to do is only what my "conscious" mind wants to do, and my body (all the rest of me including most of my brain) deals with those "wants" a bit like a doting nanny might do those of a 2yr old. If it were not for that fact I would be constantly colliding with things, falling over, and much worse.

Getting out of my depth in water is not in my body's job description and it (I) consequently view the activity with more than a little suspicion. Although I know of my ability to breath through my mouth even when my mouth is still partly submerged, and enjoy playing with this, I don't have the necessary degree of subliminal confidence to do so when my attention is elsewhere, as it often is while swimming. Think less, swim more?

A dryland example of this is standing on one foot. I suspect we all favour standing on one foot rather than the other but it is relatively easy to become proficient standing on either. Recently snapping my hip in two has meant having to relearn the simple acts of standing and walking (my legs are now different lengths). Yet despite for instance actually favouring skiing on my left leg (pushing with my right) standing on that leg (only) remains a less "confident" action. Most of the time now I can switch from one leg to the other without having to rebalance or focus on getting that right. However still there remains a "wobble" in it. My left knee "wants" to be inboard rather than taking up the "correct" position between my hip (CoG) and foot. I see this as because if my balance fails to the inside I will "fall" onto my right foot whereas if my balance fails to the outside I will just fall.

But Terry is of course right, as a coaching instruction we must learn how to breathe "too early" as building confidence in the water is the primary plank of good swimming technique.

I also think Danny is spot on here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
.. In the end, you are who you are, and if you want to learn to swim and breath comfortably, this will take some time and effort.

I wouldn't agonize about this question too much.
Play about with floating around, vertically, on your front, on your back, arms out, back, up, down, whatever. I like floating vertically. To breathe I push my head under the surface. My body then pops up higher, and I then lift my head to breathe. You can bob up and down like this indefinitely with little or no effort. It all helps get a feel for the water. And it's also the feeling of extra buoyancy that comes in the stroke when both arms are under the water.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #34  
Old 07-04-2017
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a16ksb View Post
Hi guys.
In the last week I have returned to swimming after many many years away from it.
I am from the UK, 57 years old, weight is around (18st / 252lbs, heavy built) and would like some advice on how to be more efficient in the water.

I read the book many years ago and it really taught me alot, especially about the glide section of my style.
I have a Garmin swim and today I was doing 25m in 31-32 seconds, 50m in 103 - 110sec and 100m in 2min :19sec - 2min:30 sec, I don't do a proper turn. My stroke count is between 13 to 14
I do struggle with floating and have been told my legs drag below me.
I am a black man and there is a romour that we do not make good swimmers.
Any advice would be appreciated

Regards
Keith
Hi Keith,

Often glide and balance and used interchangeably, but it's really balance that is required and it's not negotiable. Balancing the body in the water means shifting and positioning your body over the lung ball or center of buoyancy to become level, legs light with hips high.

None of us are sinkers, we merely pivot about our lung ball, provided we have air in our lungs. Males are often much lower profile (hips legs low in water), females are generally much higher in the water - and it comes down to center of buoyancy and center of mass, every body is different. Lower profile, center of mass is further away from center of buoyancy, higher profile - center of mass is closer to center of buoyancy. Releasing my body to the water, (similar to you) my body pivots about the lungs to 70-80 degs, almost vertical in the water where hips/legs are directly below the lungs (or center of buoyancy). That's in fresh water or pool - salt water, ocean my profile is much higher, roughly 45 degrees. The lower profile swimmers will frequently reach for the pull-buoy to lift the legs/hips hips so they can swim a distance more easily, but they're only masking balance issues that need to be addressed, issues that are easy to solve.

To get your hips and legs light and high, First - balance your vessel by hanging the head no tension in the neck (refer to chapter-1 in any TI book). Our instincts are to look forward in the direction we are moving. Those of us with lower profiles, looking forward hips will drop quickly increasing drag and effort; higher profiles, back arches breaking posture. Neither are desirable outcomes looking forward.

Second, I suspect you're entering recovery arm high and flat on surface or scooping toward surface above the lungs, this will cause hips to fall immediately too. Slice recovery arm in front of head, fingertips first, send hand/arm below the lungs at forward arm extension.

Given your metrics, ~1.05/50m, 2:20/100m, 13-14 strokes per 25m. This puts you roughly at a 1.8 tempo (1.8 seconds per stroke) or 33 strokes per minute, turnover is almost in slow motion. But I suspect most of that time is your recovery arm stopping at the hip thinking you are gliding. Stopping hand at the hip is a Cardinal sin. You are not "gliding", you are "sinking" with the weight of your recovery arm hanging on to your hips - more weight behind the lungs tipping the body down, even more, adding to your imbalanced profile.

Third, I suggest getting those arms moving as they exit the water, no stopping at the hip thinking you need to glide. Get a tempo trainer and start stroking at tempos of at least 1.3 secs per stroke (or 46 spm) and faster.

In short: 1. hang the hand and/or tuck chin toward the chest (don't look forward), 2. slice in recovery hand/arm below the lungs (don't lay arm flat at entry), and 3. continuous motion with high side (recovery) arm, no stopping at the hip to glide.

Re: "I'm a black man and there is a romour that we do not make good swimmers". That is, unfortunately, a myth created by a culture that would rather have you believe you're flawed and not like everyone else. I'm European/Scottish decent, although I'm lighter at 180 lbs, our aquatic profiles are probably identical - which makes us both very human. I had coaches and other programs that led me to believe my body was flawed and one coach even suggested I should stick with hockey. The only thing that was flawed was their coaching, they didn't have a grasp of how to teach swimmers to balance their body in the water regardless of their aquatic profile, and I'm sure they never heard the word "balance" in a swimming context ever.

So you're not flawed, you will learn to balance in the water and swim very well, but it all starts with learning to balance your vessel first AND maintain balance with every stroke.

Enjoy your journey!

Stuart
mindbodyandswim.com

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 07-04-2017 at 11:41 PM.
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  #35  
Old 07-24-2017
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Hi a16ksb

Looking at your metrics it seems to me you are doing great! Have a look at the calculator I attached to my post here: http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...38&postcount=4 You need a tempo trainer to accurately "count" your turns though, but you can see the difference they make.

You don't say how tall you are (in your OP) nor if your strokes are Garmin strokes or total strokes. The watch only counts the strokes of the watch hand so you need to multiply by 2 to get the total strokes. An SPL of 13-14 would be very, very "good".

I'm not-a-coach. and have never had 1-2-1 coaching of any duration. So that's my CYA statement for the following:

Balance is achieved by equalising the weight of your body on either side of your centre of buoyancy i.e arranging yourself so that your centre of mass is in the same place as your centre of buoyancy. The key in this is getting your arms into the front quadrant. The reason most freestylers kick like fury is because they don't do that and its the only way they have of stopping their leggs dropping haha!

Everyones legs drop. They have no air in them!

Burying your head into the water, because your head is at the "lighter" end of your body, makes it weigh less (it is buoyed up by the water!). This is NOT to say that you should raise your head up like meerkat. There are many vital reasons to find its position of neutral buoyancy. Swimming is ALL about balance; and not just the physical kind.

All the best with it but most importantly, I find, enjoy the moment. After all, if we like to swim so much why are we so desperate to reach the end of the pool so quick?! This is why I find open water swimming so beneficial. It confront me with my fear, the fear that prevents calm feedback, learning, and development. In OW there is no option but to accept it's there and find a way to get over it. Either that or hope someone's dialling the emergency services :D
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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