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  #21  
Old 06-01-2016
descending descending is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Did you listen to the first comment at the very beginning?

"Swimming fast is the best thing you can do for good swimming mechanics". That's where training comes in with frequency."

Also listen from the first words that come b/f that statement. Swimming slow and easy all the time does not fill out the equation of speed. At some point if speed is the goal you gotta get out of the easy mode. There is a lot of great stuff in there that is dead on accurate. 3:50 is the exact reason why a lot of adult swimmers are so slow and never get substantially faster.

Last edited by descending : 06-01-2016 at 12:52 AM.
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
Haha ZT, coincidentally I already watched this same clip that you referenced on another thread (to do with the 'Early Vertical Forearm, Is Over-emphasised" question, but ironically, I never got a clarification on that) and after watching the part that was relevant to my question, kept on watching and saw the nugget of information at 7:20. For those that didn't click on it to watch at 7:20, Gerry explains that the beard on shoulder rash is a symptom of the swimmer who turns to breathe too late in the arm pull/recovery cycle or breathes on time but delays too long in getting his head back to facing down.
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  #23  
Old 06-01-2016
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Originally Posted by sclim View Post
Haha ZT, coincidentally I already watched this same clip that you referenced on another thread (to do with the 'Early Vertical Forearm, Is Over-emphasised" question, but ironically, I never got a clarification on that) and after watching the part that was relevant to my question, kept on watching and saw the nugget of information at 7:20. For those that didn't click on it to watch at 7:20, Gerry explains that the beard on shoulder rash is a symptom of the swimmer who turns to breathe too late in the arm pull/recovery cycle or breathes on time but delays too long in getting his head back to facing down.
This confirms my suspicions--thanks. However, I notice that if I am really pushing the shoulder forward to get strong extension on the spear, my shoulder actually comes into contact with my beard on the side of my jaw even when my head is down and I'm looking straight ahead in the mirror. So it'll be interesting to see if that's enough to cause some rubbing even after I break my habit of keeping my head turned too long.
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2016
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My goodness those videos from Rodriguez are so full of outstanding information I got a chance to watch the entire library today waiting at the airport. Even though he seems to focus on open water he could translate most of that to Masters pool racing. He addresses the things triathletes rarely want to address and he simplifies the concepts. Also I'm not sure where this quote in on him saying high elbow is overrated. In part 7 he spends a lot of time talking about how to do it and the benefits.

Last edited by descending : 06-02-2016 at 12:07 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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My goodness those videos from Rodriguez are so full of outstanding information I got a chance to watch the entire library today waiting at the airport. Even though he seems to focus on open water he could translate most of that to Masters pool racing. He addresses the things triathletes rarely want to address and he simplifies the concepts. Also I'm not sure where this quote in on him saying high elbow is overrated. In part 7 he spends a lot of time talking about how to do it and the benefits.
I had this same difficulty. (Although unlike you I only watched that one video, not the whole library -- looks like I should go back and do some browsing!)
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  #26  
Old 06-02-2016
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Originally Posted by sclim View Post
I had this same difficulty. (Although unlike you I only watched that one video, not the whole library -- looks like I should go back and do some browsing!)
He's a big advocate of high elbow catch and even said he saw a reduction in shoulder injuries from the straight arm catch in the 70's. Talks about keeping the upper arm as close to the surface as your ability will allow. Sounds like the same things I hear at practice!
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  #27  
Old 06-02-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by descending View Post
My goodness those videos from Rodriguez are so full of outstanding information I got a chance to watch the entire library today waiting at the airport. Even though he seems to focus on open water he could translate most of that to Masters pool racing. He addresses the things triathletes rarely want to address and he simplifies the concepts. Also I'm not sure where this quote in on him saying high elbow is overrated. In part 7 he spends a lot of time talking about how to do it and the benefits.
I've seen and like Gerry's lectures, but surprisingly he never mentions minimizing drag profile, only maximizing and simplifying propulsive forces. Propulsive forces and drag forces are not mutually exclusive. Fast swimming doesn't mean faster turnover as perception will lead us to believe. Propulsive forces must exceed resistant forces in order to move forward. Is it better to increase power to overcome resistant forces, or decrease resistant forces to move faster? Terry describes this very well in the following presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8YD...1&feature=fvwp

Stuart
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  #28  
Old 06-02-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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He advocates tautness as the most important part of technique.
And that means the same as straight and balanced although he never talks much about balance.
He treats triathletes more or less as non-swimmers and has given up on much propulsion fron their legs.
So its keep them out of the way, make the body as straight and balanced as possible, add some reasonable arm mechanics at higher rates to help the non-legs and train hard.
Its a pragmatic method to get hard working fitt former nonswimmers fast in openwater races on minimal trainingstime.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 06-02-2016 at 07:26 AM.
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  #29  
Old 06-02-2016
s.sciame s.sciame is offline
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Originally Posted by descending View Post
My goodness those videos from Rodriguez are so full of outstanding information I got a chance to watch the entire library today waiting at the airport. Even though he seems to focus on open water he could translate most of that to Masters pool racing. He addresses the things triathletes rarely want to address and he simplifies the concepts. Also I'm not sure where this quote in on him saying high elbow is overrated. In part 7 he spends a lot of time talking about how to do it and the benefits.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...080467712?mt=2

Episode #7
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  #30  
Old 06-02-2016
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Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Is it better to increase power to overcome resistant forces, or decrease resistant forces to move faster? Terry describes this very well in the following presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8YD...1&feature=fvwp

Stuart
If it's someone who is only going to swim a couple of days a week and doesn't want to exert a lot then probably technique. If it's someone who wants to go their absolute fastest that they are capable of then I would take a swimmer who is willing to swim with more intensity with respect to who swims a race faster overall. Take swimmer A and swimmer B never swam a day in their life and B is the Masters swimmer 4 days a week I'd take that one in a race after year 1. The amount of strength and flexibility gained by the fitness will allow B to continue to evolve their technical skills and proficiency over time it's not a fixed game where if they are not a drag bullet on day 1 that's all they get. Plus they are much fitter. I do believe technique is important, but if I had to get coached as a new swimmer knowing what I know now I would tell myself to hold off on trying to fit a cooker cutter mold of technique until my body came up to par with some swim strength and flexibility. The arm mechanics of our new squad swimmers go through huge transformations in that first year and it's not an accident it takes time in the water and fitness to get there. Little by little our new TI guy is finding this out. He's already keeping up with his lane now, significantly faster SR and has gone to a 6 beat kick. Have not paid attention to his arm mechanics, but he was talking with one of the coaches the other day about elbow position and entry point.

I know what I have seen in my little sphere of swim life, but I guess if we could get a look at the cadre of Gerry's swimmers and see the times they are posting that would be the true test of how his methodology works out against the clock. Edit I just went to his tower26 web site and read his history and beliefs in the water. So, I can see you and I will disagree on this one as I am pretty much a cooker cutter of his mantras and approach. No worries not a right or a wrong just a differing set of views. As long as people are in the water having fun that's all I care about!

http://tower26.com/coach-gerry/

These pages of testimonials are pretty powerful that he is doing something right in his training approach, more right than wrong:

http://tower26.com/testimonials/

Last edited by descending : 06-02-2016 at 11:24 AM.
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