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  #41  
Old 05-06-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Yes, that is what I was trying to say, just couldn't find the right way to explain it, thanks.
I didn't necessarily mean slow...I meant easy. An easy swim is not necessarily a slow tempo or a low SPL...that may in fact be more strenuous than a slightly faster tempo or shorter stroke.

I think it's really important to find those different speeds and different gears for each individual that relieves us of the need to breath every stroke at an "easy" pace. If you need to breath every 3 seconds (a 1.5 tempo) and 20 breaths per minute, it just doesn't seem like an easy swim to me.

I'm just trying ot challenge people to think differently about their swimming. As people get older their total lung capacity and the diffusion capacity of the lungs decreases..in my swimmers > 55 to 60 years old, they do have a much harder time taking many strokes without needing to breath. So if you are younger than that, and have trouble finding an effort (even if it's just a warm up effort for teh first 100 yards) in which you can comfortably swim and take a breath every 3 - 4 strokes....can you find an easy way to swim easier? (this may be a higher tempo and higher spl...can you reduce your energy spending though?)

You may have already explored all of these options, and if so then just disregard.
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Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #42  
Old 05-06-2013
tpamperin tpamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I didn't necessarily mean slow...I meant easy. An easy swim is not necessarily a slow tempo or a low SPL...that may in fact be more strenuous than a slightly faster tempo or shorter stroke.

I think it's really important to find those different speeds and different gears for each individual

....can you find an easy way to swim easier? (this may be a higher tempo and higher spl...can you reduce your energy spending though?)
Yes! This was a tremendous revelation for me when I realized it. About 18 months ago Terry suggested I experiment with giving myself extra strokes per length to see what would happen (I had been really emphasizing low SPL in short repeats). What I found was a new cruising gear that was 2 SPL higher than my usual lowest SPL. THe new gear turned out to feel MUCH easier for me.

What's even more interesting is that it not only felt easier, it was also significantly faster. It's not often you get the chance to get faster while working less--but then, that's kind of the whole point of TI practice as I understand it. An awareness of all the gears available is incredibly valuable, and that can only come from mindful experimentation with variables.

Tom
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  #43  
Old 05-06-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by tpamperin View Post
Yes! This was a tremendous revelation for me when I realized it. About 18 months ago Terry suggested I experiment with giving myself extra strokes per length to see what would happen (I had been really emphasizing low SPL in short repeats). What I found was a new cruising gear that was 2 SPL higher than my usual lowest SPL. THe new gear turned out to feel MUCH easier for me.

What's even more interesting is that it not only felt easier, it was also significantly faster. It's not often you get the chance to get faster while working less--but then, that's kind of the whole point of TI practice as I understand it. An awareness of all the gears available is incredibly valuable, and that can only come from mindful experimentation with variables.

Tom
Wow Tom, thanks for sharing this experience!! Fantastic. I would love to hear more of these sorts of discoveries by swimmers.
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #44  
Old 05-06-2013
flychick flychick is offline
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Yes, I had this experience too. When, with Coach Tracey Bauman's help I FINALLY sorted out my two beat kick timing, she suggested that I start to work at higher TT speeds.

I had been comfortable at TT 1.25, 17 SPL and a cruising pace of 1.50/100m (I could hold this pace comfortably).

However, I am now most comfortable at TT 1.10, 18/19 SPL and average between 5 and 7 seconds faster per 100m. The magic is that it feels so much easier and I am going quite a bit faster!! Even though I have added strokes, the cadence feels far more natural and I love it!!!

I will say that I would not have been able to work at this TT setting without sorting out my stroke timing - thank you Tracey :-)
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Last edited by flychick : 05-06-2013 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Add info.
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  #45  
Old 05-06-2013
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
At some point, and I don't think it has changed much, 48% of all swim guides sold were OGs. It's a public health issue, not a marketing pitch.
Let's be a bit mean: first one vigorously propagates that overgliding is devil's own work, and then one states that 'At some point 48% of all swim guides sold were OGs.'
What do we want to call this, self-fulfilling prophecy or successful business strategy? Or 'honi soit qui mal y pense' maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
As soon as the hand drops out of streamline (and we are actually teaching to spear out of streamline, into a partially already dropped position), the body starts to slow down. it's always going to be a balance of the top speed of a stroke, how much slowdown occurs over what period of time, how much energy it takes to speed back up and all of this must be balanced with the swimmers biomechanics and strength. I don't think you can put an arbitrary number on all of this (although it would make a really nice calculus problem).
...
Do you mean that - apart from the spearing position - starting the catch in general means that you slow down the body?

And, who is Adam? (no, not that original one, that one that you mention here)

Last edited by haschu33 : 05-06-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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  #46  
Old 05-06-2013
machelett machelett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
Let's be a bit mean: first one vigorously propagates that overgliding is devil's own work, and then one states that 'At some point 48% of all swim guides sold were OGs.'
What do we want to call this, self-fulfilling prophecy or successful business strategy? Or 'honi soit qui mal y pense' maybe?
From what I've seen, all their guides sell for the same price (I've only really looked at the Bambino and the Overglider) and they also vigorously propagate that windmilling and overkicking are bad. Why does the prophecy not fulfill itself there? Where's the benefit in pushing one guide over all the others?
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  #47  
Old 05-06-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
Let's be a bit mean: first one vigorously propagates that overgliding is devil's own work, and then one states that 'At some point 48% of all swim guides sold were OGs.'
What do we want to call this, self-fulfilling prophecy or successful business strategy?
I doubt anyone could be that successful in this *business* with no regard at all for the primary mission, which is to help people and be pleased when things work.

What I may want to add, about this frequent reference to marketing/business in the context of these swim companies, would be that we Web lovers visit websites. Websites look nicer and nicer, for less and less money nowadays. You need a car, you visit a car manufacturer website, look for a book, visit a bunch of websites. We seek for some swim advices, and may trip on a few sites, SS, TI, GoSwim, whatever. It all looks pretty. Professional, wealthy, business marketing.

The reality though is that this most swim companies at the mo merely generate the business yearly revenue of a street corner convenience store. I'd be surprised to hear that anyone in the business goes above 1 Million of revenue per year. These guys, Adam, Paul, Terry, Gerry, Nicolas, are just small entrepreneurs struggling to make a living for themselves for a while (takes a few years of struggling, at best!). Some will achieve this (ie, generating 1 or 2 full time job salaries). They may, at best, hire a few persons, ie creating a few jobs.

Unemployment rate in the US is down to 7.5% these days. But that's still quite high, which explains the very low inflation rate (which worries economists). Situation in Europe is much worst. We need these successful entrepreneurs in my humble opinion.

Both SS and TI are offering fantastic part time jobs (or even full time jobs for those willing to try their luck). Success stories such as that of Coach Suzanne who can help people both with their health but also with their hobby are fantastic.

I see no catcha, or false representation, or sneaking marketing tricks here, therefore no valid reason to constantly seek for negative vibes. It's a hobby, a passion, a healthy one too! I just a bunch of people having needs, and various schools of thoughts having products and services to fulfill these needs.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 05-06-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-06-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello hashu33,

Quote:
Do you mean that - apart from the spearing position - starting the catch in general means that you slow down the body?
.. not, when the arm falls down (and "back") with your (gliding) pace...

Quote:
And, who is Adam? (no, not that original one, that one that you mention here)
Think it might be the headcoach Adam from SwimSmooth. (Honestly, a very kind person.)

Best regards,
Werner

PS: What's about the pool in BB?
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  #49  
Old 05-06-2013
Rincewind Rincewind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
An easy swim is not necessarily a slow tempo or a low SPL...that may in fact be more strenuous than a slightly faster tempo or shorter stroke.
Yes, exactly that =).


I will try your suggestion for altering breathing frequency based on effort. Right now I am only using bilateral every 3 strokes.
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  #50  
Old 05-06-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post

Do you mean that - apart from the spearing position - starting the catch in general means that you slow down the body?

And, who is Adam? (no, not that original one, that one that you mention here)
The end of the catch is the slowest velocity in the stroke. maximum drag, minimal propulsion.

Start the catch sooner and drag commences earlier, while velocity is higher, propulsion is applied before velocity slows too much.

Start the catch later and drag commences later, more forward speed preserved but risking deceleration that requires energy to overcome.

Start it too early and risk stress & repetitive overuse injuries in the rotator cuff.

Start it too late and lose gravity assisted weight shift occurring with body roll.

There is a sweet spot for each person which will provide a small range of working conditions which should be practiced and called upon for different swimming, training & racing scenarios.

Balance in all things.
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Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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