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Old 03-15-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Default breathing and the catch

Am I correct in thinking that the breath should be completed and the head looking down again before the catch happens?
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Old 03-15-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by johynr]]] View Post
Am I correct in thinking that the breath should be completed and the head looking down again before the catch happens?
Generally yes. The danger is that if the lead arm begins moving during the breath, the swimmer is usually pushing down on th water, and losing forward momentum, diverting energy down in order to lift the head up.

You will see some elites stroking while breathing (Phelps for example) and in my observation this is what leads to his loping stroke. But the difference is that he continues to move forward during the catch & stroke with no downward force to the stroking arm. This is really, really, really hard to do for most people, and almost always results in pushing down which is wasteful.

Try moving the head back down at the same time the recovery hand enters, which would also be timed with the lead arm catch.
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Old 03-15-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Thank you - I will try that focal point tomorrow. It seems to tie a few things in nicely.

"Try moving the head back down at the same time the recovery hand enters, which would also be timed with the lead arm catch."
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Old 03-15-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi John,

Although I mostly in agreement with Suzanne, don't time breathing with catch since that can trigger the lead arm to move too soon to buoyant head and break stroke rhythm. But I have swimmers return their head to neutral position (goggles down) much earlier, not at recovery entry - since that often stunts recovery with the high side arm banging into the head. Let shoulders do the timing, chin follows shoulder to air and return head goggles down after getting a take full of air. If you admire your recovery arm pass by your goggles, the breath is is either too late and/or too long - giving the head more opportunity to be out of position.

Stuart
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Old 03-16-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi John,

Although I mostly in agreement with Suzanne, don't time breathing with catch since that can trigger the lead arm to move too soon to buoyant head and break stroke rhythm. But I have swimmers return their head to neutral position (goggles down) much earlier, not at recovery entry - since that often stunts recovery with the high side arm banging into the head. Let shoulders do the timing, chin follows shoulder to air and return head goggles down after getting a take full of air. If you admire your recovery arm pass by your goggles, the breath is is either too late and/or too long - giving the head more opportunity to be out of position.

Stuart
Maybe we are talking about two sides of the same coin, but I do admire my recovery arm passing by and don't bang my head
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Old 03-16-2016
lloyddinma lloyddinma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi John,
Let shoulders do the timing, chin follows shoulder to air and return head goggles down after getting a take full of air. If you admire your recovery arm pass by

Stuart
Hi Coach Stuart,

it would require a lot of skill to take in a tank of air in such a thin time-slice. You would have to be able to facilitate speed without being turbulent right?

You could also argue that it could also take practice to be able to attain the head down position --like Coach Suzanne can-- without banging the head. Clearly, you both can't be making things up.

Here's why I bring this up. Some of us learners have our little "motivational youtube video/s." In one of mine, the TI swimmer is over-rotating, with elbows above his back while in another this other TI swimmer is spearing relatively flat. They both get away really well respectively. I can't!

Today, I saw this TI coach (Kris) in Ireland, of similar body type, spearing at an entry-point and steep angle that I have been experimenting with now.

To the point, It does seem that some or every swimmer has nuances they can get away with that others can't.

:)
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Old 03-16-2016
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Hi Lloyd,

Breathing without interrupting your stroke, lifting head or bending body is a skill; getting a quicker air exchange requires practice once timing has been established.

I'm discussing from a coaching context, not my personal preference - although I have a full tank of air as recovery arm exits at hip. Whether new or novice swimmer, or a very experienced swimmer relearning breath position and timing, I address both the same. The longer the swimmer takes to get air, the greater the chances for head position errors. I used "often" not "always" on long breath that interrupts rhythm, not only stunting recovery arm, but likely triggers low side arm to move to keep head high and body stable to inhale - both can easily interrupt stroke rhythm. Much like a late breath too, i.e body begins to rotate first, then head rotates/chases shoulder to air. "Often" when I see late and long breath, it looks like a swimmer's head bangs between both shoulders to get air; timing and duration are off.

We all will end up with nuances, longer or shorter breath cycle - all of which include balance and male/female aquatic signature. I have heavy hips, late or long breath, I will find more water than air, especially in lumpy open water conditions.

Stuart
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Old 03-16-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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This video of Coach Mat is very informative (and to my eyes, very good) regarding breathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNzc...ature=youtu.be
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Old 03-16-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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I like keeping the head connected to the bodyroll as much as possible.
The early detach and roll face back in the water makes it easier to make a better catch on the non breathing side, but makes the time to get your air in shorter. To me the snap back of the head in Mats case looks a bit hurried and unnatural and you have to breathe in in a eyeblink.
If you make it too long though, its going to stop your stroke which also is bad.
In all cases, you have to start with the bodyroll or rotating the head a little bit forward on the bodyroll.

Bowmans opinion from the 5 min mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmTpLGrSGA

I think this breath timing looks the most natural and smooth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMF24_H_6vQ

But other people are moving a bit more to Mats timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqNLMP-dP6o

Last edited by Zenturtle : 03-16-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 03-16-2016
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
I like keeping the head connected to the bodyroll as much as possible.
The early detach and roll face back in the water makes it easier to make a better catch on the non breathing side, but makes the time to get your air in shorter. To me the snap back of the head in Mats case looks a bit hurried and unnatural and you have to breathe in in a eyeblink.
If you make it too long though, its going to stop your stroke which also is bad.
In all cases, you have to start with the bodyroll or rotating the head a little bit forward on the bodyroll.

Bowmans opinion from the 5 min mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmTpLGrSGA

I think this breath timing looks the most natural and smooth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMF24_H_6vQ

But other people are moving a bit more to Mats timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqNLMP-dP6o
By "a little bit forward on the bodyroll" you mean forward as in ahead in time, not position forward, right?
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