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  #1  
Old 03-14-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
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weakandpuny
Default Video - What's Right / What's Wrong? Advice Needed.

This is the latest video of my endless struggle. It seems if I take just a few days away from the pool (4 days away before this swim), I rapidly and catastrophically backslide. Still getting out of breath after 300-500 yards, but some days 200 is a STRUGGLE. Self-analyzing this video I'd say maybe increase my stroke rate (?). Maybe break out the Tempo Trainer(?). Looking at the videos, I'm uncertain what drills or lessons I should do to fix myself and make progress, and also don't know how much of it is simply "Patience dude. You just need more practice and better fitness."

Any and all advice is welcome. Mahalo.

https://youtu.be/at6ISOxd_CE
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weakandpuny View Post
This is the latest video of my endless struggle. It seems if I take just a few days away from the pool (4 days away before this swim), I rapidly and catastrophically backslide. Still getting out of breath after 300-500 yards, but some days 200 is a STRUGGLE. Self-analyzing this video I'd say maybe increase my stroke rate (?). Maybe break out the Tempo Trainer(?). Looking at the videos, I'm uncertain what drills or lessons I should do to fix myself and make progress, and also don't know how much of it is simply "Patience dude. You just need more practice and better fitness."

Any and all advice is welcome. Mahalo.

https://youtu.be/at6ISOxd_CE
17/18 SPL, 25 at a 1:40/100 pace....that's not too shabby. How tall are you?

I don't think adding tempo is going to help in the long run, but for short distances it may overcome balance issues. That is...you'll add effort to move faster which may lift hte back end a little...it's a short term fix, not necessarily a long term one.

Overall you look smooth, patient, calm & relaxed. You glide into and out of the wall nicely suggesting you understand streamlining from a body sense.

Suggestions: "Hang the head"...relax your neck, the crown of your head is pointing up and forward...you want it to point directly to the wall in front of you in the directino you're swimmign with the water supporting your head.

that one change will help unweight your hips a bit, creating less drag and extending endurance almost magically.

Try that for starters.
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Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #3  
Old 03-14-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
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Thank you Coach Suzanne. I started looking more forward when my daughter's swim coach told me I was looking down TOO much, essentially almost submerging my head. Once I started looking more forward, the pocket from the bow wake of my head seemed more pronounced, and I immediately saw improvement in my breathing and swimming. The improvement was, however, short-lived. I will take your advice regarding hanging my head.

Any additional tips, Coach Suzanne or anyone else, are greatly appreciated, especially with reference to breathing.
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2016
tomoy tomoy is offline
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If you exaggerate the patient lead hand, to where you're almost doing a catch up drill (an instant of superman glide with each stroke, before releasing the lead hand on to its next stroke), can you feel your hips rise? Try it at an extremely slow tempo and focus on the feeling, search for the feeling of your hips rising when you have both hands in front of your head. I can't quite see your hips crown the surface of the water, so you might be fighting a lot of drag with sunken hips.

How reliable is your breath? How often do you take in water? On many of your breaths it looks like you have plenty of clearance. If you watch Terry videos, his mouth is right at the surface. Sometimes taking water into his cheak and presumably spitting it out with exhale. It takes a lot of experience and comfort in the water to let your mouth that low, but I suspect if you rotate less for air it'll help with head position as Coach Suzanne points out and that too will help front/rear balance (get the rear up).

Finally, extend the shoulder when you reach and spear forward underwater - give that a good stretch. I think I remember seeing your previous post, and you don't look at all weakandpuny - you have quite a chunk of meat on your shoulders, so move that forward with a good stretch and that too will help your balance.

Relax and keep up the good work. I often find that distance comes with chilling out about time and speed. Of course we all want to go fast. But finding technique and especially balance is easier to do at a slower speed. Again as the master says above, speed and upping the tempo will hide balance issues.
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Old 03-14-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
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In all honesty, tomoy, I don't care about going fast. I just want to be able to distance swim comfortably (2.4 miles or greater) with significant energy remaining for the bike and the run. I'll try stretching further on my spearing lead arm. I DO have a question regarding that, though. Doesn't that put me at greater risk for shoulder injury?
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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How are your shoulders currently?
I can see a problem coming from your recovery picking the arm out of the water.
You dont need more body rotation but the limited shoulder flex forces you to recover with that hand leading a bit.
At least try to get as much shoulder flexibility as you can.
You can try nake the arm recovery a bit more ballistic from swinging it from inside to out to wider in front, not really trying to decelerate the movement before entry.
This also feels more relaxed often. Not smashing,.. just a guided fall.
See what the lower arm and hand want to do if you steer the recovery fron the trunc and the shoulder and let it everything under elbow swing/hang in the most comfortable position.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 03-14-2016 at 08:37 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenturtle View Post
How are your shoulders currently?
I can see a problem coming from your recovery picking the arm out of the water.
You dont need more body rotation but the limited shoulder flex forces you to recover with that hand leading a bit.
At least try to get as much shoulder flexibility as you can.
You can try nake the arm recovery a bit more ballistic from swinging it from inside to out to wider in front, not really trying to decelerate the movement before entry.
This also feels more relaxed often. Not smashing,.. just a guided fall.
See what the lower arm and hand want to do if you steer the recovery fron the trunc and the shoulder and let it everything under elbow swing/hang in the most comfortable position.
Agree with this minus the "ballistic" imagery. It may be semantics. Wider recovery, leading with the elbow, which means the movement comes from the upper back and posterior delts rather than the "arm" (ie biceps, forearm, tricep muscles).
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Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #8  
Old 03-14-2016
michaelmarshall5030
 
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Default Some input from a newbie, if you will accept it

One obvious thing I noticed was your frequency of turning for a breath increased as the video progressed. You started out with every three or so strokes, then you end up breathing every right arm stroke on the return lap. This makes me believe your fatigue/need for air begins with not getting enough air from the start of your workout. Possibly start your workout with breathing bilaterally; or if you cannot do bilateral yet, get a breath every right stroke. I only mention this because I found that a consistent breathing pattern right from the start helped me minimize fatigue.
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  #9  
Old 03-14-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
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Thank you, MIchael. The delay in my breathing on my first length was intentional. I wanted to see more of my recovery, catch and pull on my first length without any screwups that my breathing would introduce. My bi-lateral breathing is so bad that breathin only to my right is my only option right now. Some day (ah, some day) maybe I can effectively bilateral breathe. I have a HUGE problem with my exhale / inhale pattern, wherein I sometimes don't get all my air exhaled, then I need to inhale again, causing a CO2 buildup (I guess).
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Where is the trouble exactly?
Do you run out of breath? do you get tired somewhere?
Could also be you are partly swimming too fast for your current swim fitness.

Like said earlier . It does look pretty natural and relaxed.
Except the nonnbreathing arm insertion , which has a hesitation before you point the arm through the watersurface.
Your kick driving the non breahting side down is also a fraction off, but its not such a big deal. Ideally better to have a bit more action in your first kick and a little less in the following if you strive for a 2BK.
Do you feel you have a connection between the downkick on one side, spear on the other side, and pull on the same side?
Ideally you want that recovery arm driven forward by your hold on the water with the low side arm and kick on the other side of the recovery.
Your low side anchoring in the water, and your high side easily coming over the water.
Takes some core tone holding at that moment to get the idea, and relaxation or a slight throwing action on the recovering side.
If you up the strokerate a bit from this rate your bodyroll will get more continuous probably, and you even may have to back off some action to not overrotate.(talking from personal n=1 experience)
You are now braking the roll energy in the glide (and a biit in the second kick), and because of your build there is quite some roll energy.
Shortening the glide a bit to keep the rotation going is a way to swim for some people.
Dont know where you are coming from. Maybe you started this way and it was too exhausting. It also takes technique, core drive and timing to make it work, and its not the TI way to swim, that for sure.
Its hard to tell what is going to work for you. Only a video can reveal what problems do arise in that case.
If you want a relaxed feeling during your swim, the best option is to feel supported by the water and not have the idea that the legs sink to the bottom if you almost stop kicking.
You always want to get as close to this feeling as possible first. The balance thing.
If improvements in this area are not longer possible, the next best is to up your swimming fitness (and technique), to make relaxed swimming feel like a piece of cake compared to your fast pace.
Getting both perfected is best.

What restrictions or problems do you encounter if you try the marionette arm thing. leading the recovery arm more with the elbow, dragging the hand behind?
Krill is very good at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2H6Rx_lRv8
,and I wonder how much of this capability to do this is related to shoulder flexibility/rotation, and how much by true balance and alignment.
There is a point where limited flexibility presses you out of alignment when trying to imitate this, but it also has to do with balance and core control.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 03-14-2016 at 09:10 PM.
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