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  #1  
Old 12-22-2013
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Default Kicking from the gluts

I am having great difficulty in understanding exactly how you kick from the gluts.

What exactly is moving first? The thigh?

Thanks you in advance.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2013
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johynr]]] View Post
I am having great difficulty in understanding exactly how you kick from the gluts.
These links should help...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiPpiC0629I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqQB6JgVNc4
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2013
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Thanks for those links, but I must admit I'm still not 100 % clear as to how to do the kick.
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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If this can help...

Glutes are leg extensors, not leg flexors. The downbeat of the kick is a partial leg flexion so to speak. Therefore the chain of muscles involved in the downbeat, if we go up the chain as much as possible, this leads us to abs muscles, then hip flexor muscles, then quadriceps.

That being said.... In 2bk context, I'm more and more convinced that both the downbeat and the upbeat contributes to maintaining proper balance.

On the first link that borate provided, you can very very clearly see that the woman performing the demo has an outstanding mastery of this. Notice how high the recovering leg goes whilst the other perform its downbeat. This, is engagement of the glutes.

I've started putting some of my swimmers on a strange drill. This is 100% against TI sort of stuff, so I'm not expecting you to try it. But I'll explain it anyway, it will get you to understand what I meant with my statements above.

Using a kickboard (non TI, I know), swimmers perform 4 kicks the same leg, before changing leg. Then they go 3/3, then 2/2 then 1/1.

During all that time. Focus is on the recovering leg, not on the leg that's kicking. I'm expecting to see the recovery leg at the top all the time, and it shall not move. It shall not be influenced by the action of the other leg which is kicking. This forces the swimmers to learn to use glute muscles to "up" the recovery leg.
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2013
Danny Danny is offline
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Charles, there is another interesting variation of this, where both legs kick at the same time, that is, dolphin kicking. As you raise the legs up with your glutes, you push your hips down, which has the effect of bringing your body closer to the surface. If you time this right, it makes breathing a lot easier.
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2013
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
I've started putting some of my swimmers on a strange drill. This is 100% against TI sort of stuff, so I'm not expecting you to try it. But I'll explain it anyway, it will get you to understand what I meant with my statements above.

Using a kickboard (non TI, I know), swimmers perform 4 kicks the same leg, before changing leg. Then they go 3/3, then 2/2 then 1/1.

During all that time. Focus is on the recovering leg, not on the leg that's kicking. I'm expecting to see the recovery leg at the top all the time, and it shall not move. It shall not be influenced by the action of the other leg which is kicking. This forces the swimmers to learn to use glute muscles to "up" the recovery leg.
Charles I LOVE THIS! - will have to give it a go. I bet you could do this against the side of the pool too?
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2013
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachDavidShen View Post
Charles I LOVE THIS! - will have to give it a go. I bet you could do this against the side of the pool too?
It's all new to me, but sure. That or without a board. Principle is to learn to develop a clean action, which won't see the recovery leg "jerking" up and down as a result of poor glute engagement.
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2013
nurledge nurledge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Using a kickboard (non TI, I know), swimmers perform 4 kicks the same leg, before changing leg. Then they go 3/3, then 2/2 then 1/1.

During all that time. Focus is on the recovering leg, not on the leg that's kicking. I'm expecting to see the recovery leg at the top all the time, and it shall not move. It shall not be influenced by the action of the other leg which is kicking. This forces the swimmers to learn to use glute muscles to "up" the recovery leg.
What i did (meant for fixing my left leg kick) is kicking on the same leg while in skating position with one arm extended (same side as the kicking leg). Can achieve the same goal as Charles's description, i believe so, but more on TI compliance.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2013
Ken B Ken B is offline
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Default Kick

This winter I took fins to the pool and swam with my legs held straight behind me. As I rotated I was amazed at the load on my opposing foot. Now back in the summer estuary I find myself thinking of my legs as levers resisting the torque of my rotation and hip drive and purposely keeping them fairly straight. Of course I cant resist a slight knee bend and toe flick and the recovering leg is naturally high. Does this observation make sense?
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2013
machelett machelett is offline
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Default Roadmap to a propulsive kick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
Using a kickboard (non TI, I know), swimmers perform 4 kicks the same leg, before changing leg. Then they go 3/3, then 2/2 then 1/1.
That sounds like fun. Sort of. For the onlookers. ;)
I'm going to have to try it!

Charles, I'm a fan of your videos (you're waltzing video is one of my favorite swimming videos - no kidding) and the advice you provide. You seem to somehow sense what inhibits people and then find a way around that and so I'm trying to get some help from you on this one:
My recent project is to learn a propulsive flutter kick. It's something I admire in others and I want to be able to do it myself. Kind of the same reason why I started swimming and the journey has been incredibly rewarding.

However, I'm not making much progress. Right now, my approach is to simply do A LOT of kicking, like 1 or 1.5 km per session--streamlined, prone, on the back--but I'm not getting considerably faster and it doesn't "feel" right. I see some people with a kick that looks lazy passing me.
I suspect that I'm doing something basic wrong and that there has to be a better way. Is there any kind of progression or program that you're aware of that will teach me how to find that propulsive kick?
Most of the kicking videos on Youtube don't really click with me. I cannot absorb the essence of the advice given and transfer it to what I'm doing.

Thank you!
... and sorry for hijacking this post! :)

PS: I cannot use fins. Not allowed in most pools around here other than in organized practice. :(
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