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  #1  
Old 05-09-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
Default my Video - armpit euphoric!

me, my friend, and I... our video ;)
11 hours ago I posted on this thread http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ead.php?t=6217
this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnIHqcRssx0
This morning I went to the pool and found AT LAST!!!!!! the timing when the "Shinji torso twist" starts! yesssssss!
The answer is in the thread title! :) :) :)

Thank god to the raw instinct. I saw this Shinji piece below few days ago and focused on what happens to the torso.
That's why slow 9 SPL videos are so helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4InLAsnmKhY#t=36s

I start to look like something that resembles a TI swim.
I still look ugly and graceful as a donkey carrying bricks in the summer heat but who cares?! I have an engine now! My swim speed is much better than my aesthetics.
I will now take care of my crazy flying limbs. Only my admirers suffer a visual pain, I feel nothing! :) :)
16 SPL in really medium pace, 9 SPL in milking pace can drop to 8 with more focus.
I still look ugly but I really don't care at the moment!

The donkey has a new engine in the link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_raX7G8vRM

P.S. -
1) On my right side arm, my "underwater arm snap" looks like my "underwater wrist flick"... :) I am trying believe me. A good hint is that I don't flick the wrist when I breath on my right side after 6 seconds. Optimistic about this issue.
2) legs too wild, will use lower abs.
3) weight shift tracks?!...

I am sure I have more things to fix but I have a working swim now :)
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you must be a donkey before you become a dolphin.

Last edited by swimust : 05-09-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
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The amazing thing is that all this time of last 6 months or more, I was right and "on the money" !!
I knew that my problem was finding the timing when the torso twist starts. That's all I was really missing to having an actual swim. It was hard seeing all the coaches here telling me this and that, and all this time I was the one which got my problem spot on.
I can now trust my head 100% :)
Of course I need more work. I look like a donkey but that's "easy fixes" in my eyes !!
Once the engine is working, the rest will come and blend in naturally! :) :)

It was tough and rough mentally. I hope its behind me now.

p.s. arm-torso coordination?.. its all easy now compared to what I went through... :)
I just need to watch videos and add pieces to an existing swim frame. good!

self learning Shinji swimmer :)
On Tuesday I spent 7 hours in the pool. 4 morning and 3 evening. I had to crack it once and for all... just to find one thing.
mental fatigue will soon kick in. I hope not to fall asleep while swimming in the pool. no chance! :)
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you must be a donkey before you become a dolphin.

Last edited by swimust : 05-09-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Quite nice, swimust, but I think you need to go easy on that wrist flick. It seems very un-Shinji-like to me.

I know there is an old-school drill where you imagine you're flicking water back to the end of the pool, but I don't think it has been adopted by TI.
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2013
Mike from NS Mike from NS is offline
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Mike from NS
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As Richard said ....."nice " !!!! I see more dolphin like swimming than donkey swimming. And we have seen donkey swimming recently . Congratulations swimust !!!

All kidding aside, I hope you realize how helpful your posts have been to us all.
Mike
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
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Thanks Richard and Mike. A lot of work to do until I look graceful.
About my crazy right side "wrist flick", I think of it now and then.
I know the theory of pushing water with the forearm, but what confused me is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji
The moment my elbow is submerged, I push the water back with my forearm, but I engage upper arm and shoulder to do it.
The word "engage"... how much engaged? does it mean that forearm still leads the motion or not? when you lead with forearm you still "engage" the shoulder and upper arm (but much less).

SO... THE SECOND BEST INSIGHT OF THE DAY JUST NOW ON DRY LAND while typing this message !!!
I just repeated the moves while standing in my room!
left side: I am leading with the upper arm after the arm got behind the shoulder.
right side: I am leading with the forearm after the arm got behind the shoulder.

Now here comes trouble. I guess I have a much stiffer right shoulder than the left shoulder. I may not be able to pull with my upper arm. I may need to work on my right shoulder flexibility.
Maybe there is a technical solution. At least I understand whats going on now. Just from thinking and repeating the moves on dry land... :)

Thanks for the inspiration.


correction!
this is amazing. just in my room, no water. At first repetitions, my shoulder started hurting while using my upper arm to lead the right arm. but then just through repetitions, my shoulder (deltoid) started to adapt and learned how to twist.
Its just muscle memory! my shoulder is ok. it just doesn't know yet how to work while my upper arm leads. I managed to rotate the deltoid with no pain and hold the upper arm by repeating the same move few times.
GREAT NEWS! I predict a fix in my next session.
I will post a new video if its working.

as I said, a car can run even when looking ugly if the engine works, but no matter how nice the car looks, it cant run without a working engine. and now I have the engine.
All the rest is just cosmetics !!
viewers will be be impressed by nice graceful looking recovery. I am impressed by finding my engine! That's what its all about.
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you must be a donkey before you become a dolphin.

Last edited by swimust : 05-09-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
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that's it! I just watched again my video and no doubt that on left arm I lead with my upper arm after the arm got behind the shoulder, while on the right side I lead with my forearm (after the arm got behind the shoulder).
MYSTERY SOLVED! :) :)

Next work is on leading with upper arm on right side. I hope my shoulder will handle the change. that's the fix.
slow soft work until my muscles learn the move. it will be ok.
amazing. just by watching video and thinking. no need of water.
people swim all their lives with no changes. videos and opened minds are great.
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you must be a donkey before you become a dolphin.

Last edited by swimust : 05-09-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-09-2013
keej01 keej01 is offline
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keej01
Default very curious take

This is very interesting to me being a TI rookie. The whole engine first and then worry about relaxing!!!! I really believe from my TI coach experience that the absolute opposite is the truth to learning TI. First we learn easy and relaxed balance. Next we learn head position and what to do with our hands under the water working on spearing. Last we worry about recovery and the two beat kick.

From my little rookie standpoint I don't see any other way to learn TI. Concentrating on the idea when the body must twist is a later in the practice phase concept to apply. We do learn early on in spearing how to start rotating effectively. Even concentrating on Shinji's efforts just doesn't make sense to me until you follow the TI method of learning. My best advice is to start over and do the TI drills in the order specified. If a TI coach tells me that the order is wrong and you can do any in any order, then I will understand and suggest that whatever is okay.

Sorry just my two cents.
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  #8  
Old 05-09-2013
tpamperin tpamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
correction!
this is amazing. just in my room, no water. At first repetitions, my shoulder started hurting while using my upper arm to lead the right arm. but then just through repetitions, my shoulder (deltoid) started to adapt and learned how to twist.
Its just muscle memory! my shoulder is ok. it just doesn't know yet how to work while my upper arm leads. I managed to rotate the deltoid with no pain and hold the upper arm by repeating the same move few times.
GREAT NEWS! I predict a fix in my next session.
I will post a new video if its working.
Sounds like you might be discovering the same thing I'm discovering on the Timing Catch/Pull thread on the Freestyle section of the forum. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about that thread if you have time to check it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
now I have the engine.
All the rest is just cosmetics !!.
I'm not sure I agree with you here. Smoothness, balance, minimizing drag, all the things that make a stroke look pretty--they matter a lot, and are not merely cosmetic.

My experience has been that the possibilities for discovery come in many different areas of the stroke--there is no "one key" to it all; assembling the many diverse areas of technique and holding them ALL together is the key.

You might discover later in your practice that something else is the most important and productive focus of the moment.

Tom

Last edited by tpamperin : 05-09-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-09-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi swimust

When exponents of physical education say 'engage' I think they mean that the muscle they are talking about is under tension. If you rest your right elbow on your left hand and press down against the resistance of your hand you will feel the latissimus dorsi engage. I think this is the feeling you want when you are holding the water on the right side and about to switch sides and spear with the left.

The wrist flick in a less exaggerated form may have some useful function but I suspect it is just a flourish. You haven't got a wrist flick on your left side and I don't think you need one.

Like you, I am also a donkey trying to become a dolphin so I am open to correction from those who know better.
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  #10  
Old 05-09-2013
tpamperin tpamperin is offline
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tpamperin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keej01 View Post
The whole engine first and then worry about relaxing!!!! I really believe from my TI coach experience that the absolute opposite is the truth to learning TI...

From my little rookie standpoint I don't see any other way to learn TI.
I tend to agree, but to me what TI is really about is cultivating mindfulness and purposeful practice. It may be most efficient for most people to do the drill sequence than TI has painstakingly developed over the years--to do otherwise might be like re-inventing the wheel.

On the other hand, I doubt that true TI coaches are dogmatic about doing it "THE" right way. There is value in mindful experimentation. In fact, a mindful experimenter who doesn't know TI will probably do better than someone who follows the TI drills in strict order without the mindfulness they are designed to develop.

There is no ONE right way that fits everyone, there are only guiding principles we must all find our way around, I think.

Tom
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