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  #1  
Old 01-23-2012
katypfarmgirl katypfarmgirl is offline
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katypfarmgirl
Default Is TI technique applicable to interval pool training

Terry
I have studied your dvdís, incorporated your stroke technique. My swim coaches try to talk me out of it talking me into a more conventional stroke. I have stuck to my guns and keep the 2 beat kick, mail slot, no splashing etc. My question is: When I am in the pool next to my swim buddies during swim club doing our intervals they pull away from me by using a more conventional stroke. I could turn the old 3 beat 6 beat/ stroke back on but Iíd rather use the Ti approach. Is the TI stroke more designed for long distance vs sprint technique. It strikes me the analology is running on a track doing shorter sprint distances is much different than the technique of a marathon runner. If that is correct am right in thinking when doing pool interval training where you train for speed and heart rate that TI is less applicable? (We do our open water swimming in Lake Winnipesaukee NH daily in the summer months which is ultimately where I am training to perform, not an indoor pool/masters program. )
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I guess it depends on your level, I know from previous posts that Terry uses his TI technique to perform sub minute 100m races, but you have to pick the stroke rate up to 70 strokes a minute or more. Just maintain the active glide at the front of the stroke and your balance and streamline whilst your friends are pulling with the shoulder as soon as their hand hits the water.

You will be quicker over time, apart from the uber athletes in your club that would probably still get down the lane faster with their shoes on.
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2012
swim2Bfree swim2Bfree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I know from previous posts that Terry uses his TI technique to perform sub minute 100m races
His best recorded time in the USMS database is 1:07... short-course yards.. Converted to LCM that's about 1:18.
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katypfarmgirl View Post
Terry
I have studied your dvdís, incorporated your stroke technique. My swim coaches try to talk me out of it talking me into a more conventional stroke. I have stuck to my guns and keep the 2 beat kick, mail slot, no splashing etc. My question is: When I am in the pool next to my swim buddies during swim club doing our intervals they pull away from me by using a more conventional stroke. I could turn the old 3 beat 6 beat/ stroke back on but Iíd rather use the Ti approach. Is the TI stroke more designed for long distance vs sprint technique. It strikes me the analology is running on a track doing shorter sprint distances is much different than the technique of a marathon runner. If that is correct am right in thinking when doing pool interval training where you train for speed and heart rate that TI is less applicable? (We do our open water swimming in Lake Winnipesaukee NH daily in the summer months which is ultimately where I am training to perform, not an indoor pool/masters program. )
There is no reason you can't swim "ti technique" alongside your pool mates. over time, you can increase your speed with TI by manipulating the only 2 parameters that matter, stroke length and stroke rate.

How do your times compare to your own performance in the past (as opposed to your swim buddies)? Is the kicking pattern the only thing different between your old & new stroke?

Do you know what your previous & current SPLs & stroke rates are?

Swimming intervals does not preclude one from swimming TI... there are entire masters and age group programs that race short course that teach a TI stroke. Does your coach tell you specifically what it is he doesn't want you to do? Does he want you to increase your turnover? in craese the rate of your kick?

if you are truley training to sprint 50 or 100m in competition than some things may change a bit as far as timing and kicking, but the underlying fluid dynamics don't change.

Finally since your long term goal is open water swimming, I'd suggest that your primary focus on the pool should be practicing your OW stroke at various paces.
1)
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2012
ian mac ian mac is offline
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Default Keep up the TI

Katy,
Stick to your guns! I have been swimming competitively for more than 40 years, and TI transformed my thinking about moving through water. I won my first National Masters title in the 800m free after reading Terry's first Total Immersion book at the age of 38. Eight years later, at 46 I finally squeaked into FINA top Ten (9th) in the 800m and swam 12 seconds faster than when I was 38. Now, at 54 I am hoping to better that 800m time of 9:38.

What TI keeps re-enforcing for me is that while both aerobic and anaerobic conditioning are certainly important to fast swimming, decreasing drag is far more important. My 56 yr. old training partner last yr. swam a 1500m free in 19:38 which will place him in the top 5 in the world for 2011, and managed to win every freestyle event at the Canadian Nationals. In every practice we concern ourselves with improving stroke length (SL). One of our favourite warm ups is the TI classic 4 x 25m, 3 x 50m, 2 x 75m, 1 x 100m (AKA 4321) while maintaining an SPL of 11. Believe me, it requires a great deal of mindfulness and concentration of good technique. We are constantly working on stroke rate adaptation, and I have finally convinced him to buy a tempo trainer as a tool for doing this.

Unfortunately, Terry and TI get slagged by some of the conventional swimming community, rather unfairly I think. For any swimmer, a great coach is someone who is able to get across ways to improve SPL and SR in order to swim faster. I look for betterment from many sources. Terry and TI are not the panacea for everyone. I have learned much from him and my TI buddies, and hope that you will get as much out of TI as I have.

"Illegitimi non carborundum," and many happy laps,
Ian
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  #6  
Old 01-26-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swim2Bfree View Post
His best recorded time in the USMS database is 1:07... short-course yards.. Converted to LCM that's about 1:18.
Thank you for pointing out my statistical error.

what % of your posts have a negative edge to them? If you truly want to Swim2bFree I think you need to consider the half full glass a little more often.

I will just have to swim sub 60 seconds myself using TI then. :)
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  #7  
Old 01-26-2012
swim2Bfree swim2Bfree is offline
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swim2Bfree
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Thank you for pointing out my statistical error.

what % of your posts have a negative edge to them? If you truly want to Swim2bFree I think you need to consider the half full glass a little more often.

I will just have to swim sub 60 seconds myself using TI then. :)
You're reading too much into my post. Nothing negative implied; just pointing out easily verifiable facts.

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2012
katypfarmgirl katypfarmgirl is offline
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Thanks for all the input. I have been very mindful since the post. I continue to be amazed at the level of overhaul that is required to move from the conventional stroke to TI. I have finally come to the conclusion, no sense in swimming laps with the old stroke and then doing ti drills. I will be trying my best to make the final connections with 2 beat kick, mail slot etc. I cannot really answer split time questions as have been really focused on distance times for mile. I totally get the rate and spl idea. So for now I will build to whole stroke patiently. I added the tempo trainter ( that I bought a year ago and never used) really helps balance out the stroke and also really establishes a rate that you can add SPL to. Its funny how your rate can vary and really affect your endurance breathing etc. I look forward to apply the tempo trainter in the open water to pace myself over a distance and slowly increase the rate to lower my time one micro increment at a time.
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2012
AWP AWP is offline
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Katy,
With that attitude you're virtually guaranteed to improve and have fun doing it. Maybe post some of your practices (?)

Alan
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2012
terry terry is offline
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Katy
I'm sorry I didn't see your post sooner, but I note you've received much support and much good advice already. Some of the static TI swimmers receive from old-school coaches is because the Protestant work ethic is such an inbred part of the swimming culture. We're more Taoist here.

As Ian has testified, a commitment to TI is no impediment to swimming fast times. Indeed, I broke 55-59 US Masters records in the 1-Mile and 2-Mile Cable swims, and I'm just one among several TI coaches who've won national titles or broken records. TI Coach Diann Uustal will be honored in the April issue of Swimming World as World Masters Swimmer of the Year for 2010, in recognition of a slew of national and world records in the 60-64 age group.

The major difference between TI and other programs is we unequivocally believe the purpose of swimming is to live a happier, healthier life -- and you can achieve any utilitarian goal at the same time. You can see a great representation of our paradigm and values in the thread You Can't Make This Stuff Up.
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