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  #11  
Old 12-18-2010
LennartLarsson LennartLarsson is offline
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Terry

What is the purpose of this? I might be stupid, but how will this training session improve your racing capacity? Your early repeats must be very, very easy, or? I realize that it has to do with the neural system and you adjust your swimming to gradually move your arms faster without losing SPL. But if my 100s in a session is, say 1.25-1.26, start every 2.00 minutes down to start 1.50 or maybe 1.45, and I want to improve my swimming to reach 1.20-1.21 after a while for the same type of training session, how would your type of session lead me towards that goal? Would it not be better to use the TT in order to get my neural system to gradually adjust to higher speed? My problem is that I am too slow. I want may arms to move faster in order to swim faster on long distance. So what benefit will your just described session give me in that context?

Lennart
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2010
AWP AWP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LennartLarsson View Post
I want may arms to move faster in order to swim faster on long distance. So what benefit will your just described session give me in that context?

Lennart
Moving your arms faster will not guarantee you'll swim faster.
Practicing holding your ground (in this case water), effectively creating "locomotion not commotion" while doing it and honing your ability/awareness to the three 'major' aspects of your swimming, balance streamlining and propulsion, will help speed things up (and get those arms moving too).

By holding to a specific spl, 'eeking' out as much speed from that, then letting your spl climb while improving pace AND THEN holding your initial spl while keeping that pace should produce 'faster' times. Using an exercise as Terry has done, imo, is a good way to approach this; and cool too.

Your first attempts may not be too successful but persistence and a hearty focus just may show you something new.

It's a problem solving routine, solve the 'problems' and swimming faster (better) is a guarantee (yup, went out on a limb there). Give it a shot.
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2010
terry terry is offline
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If the SUNY pool is open this weekend, I think I'll revert to IM practice. Over the past two weeks, because I was conducting a Speed Camp and training for new TI Coaches, I mainly practiced freestyle to stay in context.

I want to do something similar to the SPL ladder with backstroke as a tuneup for a backstroke-focused IM set.
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2010
AWP AWP is offline
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Sounds interesting.
I think this is how I brought my average time for 25 yds of fly from :27 down to :23 @ the same spl in my last IM practice.
And so it continues...
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2010
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWP View Post
Lennart
Moving your arms faster will not guarantee you'll swim faster.
Practicing holding your ground (in this case water), effectively creating "locomotion not commotion" while doing it and honing your ability/awareness to the three 'major' aspects of your swimming, balance streamlining and propulsion, will help speed things up (and get those arms moving too).
<snip>
It's a problem solving routine, solve the 'problems' and swimming faster (better) is a guarantee (yup, went out on a limb there). Give it a shot.
Amen to that. Great analysis, Alan. (The world needs you to become a TI Coach; within the next few months we will debut an on-line training program to formally recognize and support 'informed enthusiasts' like yourself. It will be called TI Mentor and will serve as the 'farm team' for the next level TI Certified Coach, which will have a more formal, and in-person, training program.)

Lennart has evolved to a highly salutary place as a swimmer. He's progressed from being 'improvement-oriented' to 'performance oriented.' That involves setting more exacting, and highly measurable goals for your improvement. It could involve performing in races. Or just in self-devised test swims. (In 2011 we will also debut a range of thoughtfully-designed Virtual Events on the TI site, which will allow TI enthusiasts to have a structured way to set improvement goals and measure progress toward them, while comparing their Mastery to that of other TI enthusiasts worldwide. These events will be designed to allow someone who swims a 35-minute 1500 to be recognized as equally -- or even more - masterful as someone who swims it in 25 minutes.)

My goals are similar to Lennart's. As I enter the 60-64 age group I want to perform among the 'world elite' of that age group in my favorite events. I also hope to break an Adirondack Masters record in every pool discipline - i.e. in all 4 strokes plus the IM.

To reach that goal I must remain mindful of the following:

1. Velocity = Length x Rate.

2. Of the two, Length is the most persistent and exacting challenge. Rate is almost irresistible. Unskilled swimmers have too much of it and virtually no ability to create Length.

Even skilled swimmers - including elites - tend to find it incredibly difficult to sustain length as the race goes on.

Little known fact about Speed. In the 100m everyone is decelerating over the last 25m. Those who decelerate least end up as the winners and medalists. And what differentiates winners from losers? Everyone increases rate near the end. Losers sacrifice length. Winners maintain it.

In the 1500m winners are increasing pace near the end. Losers are unable to. Both are increasing rate at that point. Winners maintain length better.

Knowing this, a lot of my training is geared to 'programming' my nervous system to improving and maintaining Length.

The SPL ladder is the best set I've ever done to create that effect. Even the lower speeds have value by setting me up for success at the higher speeds.

Rate, on the other hand, is almost ridiculously easy to program. All I have to do is press the right button on my Tempo Trainer.
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Last edited by terry : 12-18-2010 at 10:59 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2010
terry terry is offline
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I did swim at SUNY today, first time swimming indoors since Dec 2 or 3, after two weeks running TI programs in Coral Springs FL.

I did a variation on the SPL Pyramid.
4 rounds of 6 x 100, one round each on 1:40-1:45-1:50-2:00

Each round was
100 Balance/Streamline @ 13 SPL
100 Propel/Kick @ 13 SPL
100 B/S @ 13 SPL
100 P/K @ 14 SPL
100 B/S @ 13 SPL
100 P/K @ 15 SPL

I used the odd 100s as recovery and the even 100s were 'quality' and descended as SPL increased.

I swam the quality 100s faster in each round. Times not as fast as the other day but the practice required strong focus and I felt very sharp at times.
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  #17  
Old 12-19-2010
terry terry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haschu33 View Post
Well, one could get the idea to extend the range into the slow area, where it is rather easy to maintain the SPL. Then you get a very wide range with the same stroke count. E.g. here:

A little old - but still valid

Taking the 1:28 (SPL=21) and 0:82 (SPL=21), and assuming 3 beeps for the pushoff in the slow range and 4 beeps in the fast range, I must have covered a range from 30.72 secs to 20.50 secs with an average of 21 strokes for 25m laps.

So, about 10 seconds. But does that really tell me something? My swimming capabilities are far away from Terry's while these numbers don't really show it.

What I mean is, when you do a 'how much slower can you swim without changing stroke count' you can get quite silly results.
Haschu
I'm not sure you can still recall some of the subtler details of a set you did a bit over 4 months ago, but to get meaningful data from a Tempo + SPL set, it must actually be a Tempo + Beeps set.

When I do such a set I do two things to ensure accurate data
1) I allow myself only 3 beeps from pushing off to first stroke.
2) After the final stroke I count (which I register on hand entry) my hand must strike the wall before the next beep. If I hear another beep before my hand strikes the wall I either redo that repeat, or count that extra beep.

If you don't rigorously do both, the time you calculate from Tempo x SPL will seem to be faster than actual time. When tempo approaches and passes 1.0 sec/stroke doing both becomes quite challenging.

If you can't recall whether you did both, you might try repeating the set with those 'rules' and see where the data leads.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2010
Grant Grant is offline
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[quote=terry;15571]
2) After the final stroke I count (which I register on hand entry) my hand must strike the wall before the next beep. If I hear another beep before my hand strikes the wall I either redo that repeat, or count that extra beep.

Just to clarify Terry. If doing flip turns - the head must be going into (down) the turn before the next beep.
Thanks.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2010
terry terry is offline
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Grant
On flip turns, I allow 4 beeps between the beep that accompanies last hand hit prior to turn and first hand after it.
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Terry Laughlin
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2010
Grant Grant is offline
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Got it. Thanks Terry.
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