Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 03-20-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 29
weakandpuny
Default

So yesterday I started my warmup and was feeling pretty good. Ended up doing a 500 yard unplanned Time Trial in 9:20. Rested for several minutes, then put on the snorkel and did 1400 yards easy, in 200-300 yard sets with short rest periods, in 36:57. With the snorkel I was working on ingraining the high elbow/wider swing recovery that Coach Suzanne recommended.

It was my 7th consecutive day swimming.

Today, on my 8th consecutive day swimming I was falling apart and couldn't get my breathing right. The below video (sorry about the quality) doesn't do justice to how bad I was today.

What the hell is my malfunction?!?! I'm gonna swim again tomorrow, because I don't give up, but I really figured if I swim every day, I would not backslide.

http://youtu.be/42HretPZcTk
__________________
Poor Swimmer / Weak Cyclist / Slow Runner
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-20-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,898
Zenturtle
Default

looks already a lot better though.
Mayby allow your entering arm to sink a bit deeper on entry, but by dropping the arm over a barrel, not by spearing under it..
It looks like you are supporting the upper body on the outstretched arm a bit too much.
That way your kick also may become a little less violent.
Makes the chance of breathing trouble and overrotating a bit higher so i dont know how far you can go there.
And you still have to much second kick power and too much kneebend on your main kicks.
Try to focus on your main kicks and fire thew from your core. with what feels like a straight leg.
You want to whip from the center of your body
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUC6h_BF84A

If you combine this leg action action with a diagonal lenghtening stetch and together with rotation as here , you got the basics more or less. This has to become relaxed and automatic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZPBatEPwkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9IkZodVQzg

It really looks pretty good already. The basics seem robust Swimmfittnes , finesse and flexibility improvement require more time.

Swimming everyday if you are not used to it can be overkill. I tried to swim every day some time ago and got very tired after a week. Some sort of general fatique that lets you know after the first lap that the session is going to be bad.
But after taking a few rest days some overcompansation had taken place and i felt strong again.
You have to adapt to training load too.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 03-21-2016 at 08:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-20-2016
Danny Danny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,442
Danny
Default

I think it is a happy illusion that we all want to cling to that progress should occur monotonically. A standard pattern I have noticed in myself is that I find a small change in my stroke technique that causes a dramatic improvement in my stroke. Next day, when I get in the pool, I am so focused on this new discovery that other parts of my technique start to suffer and, all of a sudden, the magic is gone. Unfortunately, good swim technique is multi-faceted to say the least and we have to be paying attention to a lot of different things to keep it all together. As these various focuses become more internalized, they become easier to maintain and easier to diagnose when we let them slide, but this all takes time.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-21-2016
sclim sclim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,499
sclim
Default

@weakand puny: I have been hacking away at TI for 3 years and you are way better than me despite a lot of effort and dedication in the pool on my part! But I started really bad, and I am steadily improving, if slowly.

I too had a breathing problem that turned out to be a combination of tensing due to poor relaxation, and tensing the chest and breathing muscles in an unconscious effort to stiffen my trunk to form a more stable base for a strong arm pull, which of course was unnecessary. The mechanism of this last component is technically called a Valsalva manoeuvre, but the name isn't important -- I was closing my throat (glottis/larynx/voicebox) and doing a sort of grunt, compressing my lung air against it, thus stiffening my chest wall using the balloon effect of the compressed air within. Very tiring.

The fix (taught by someone on this forum) was, immediately following my in-breath, even as I turned my face back down to the bottom of the pool, to start a very slow but steady trickle release of air through my nose, and keep it going until time to breathe again. The air stream is not squeezed out by active muscle contraction but just by natural elastic recoil of all the respiratory muscles that got stretched out taking the in-breath. There may be a bit of voluntary control of this recoil, so that the trickle doesn't become to big a rush of air. There is a very fine balance between over-tightening up the muscular control of these naturally recoiling muscles, which leads to some tenseness, and having no control at all, which may lead to dumping all the air out prematurely. Your feedback is the sound of the slow steady "bubble-bubble" of air exiting your nose, and the visual of the trail of bubbles in your peripheral vision.

The fix for me was dramatic, and I went from uncontrollable breathlessness after more than a length and a half to relaxed swimming within a few lengths of practicing it. I still occasionally regress, especially when there are other stressful things like new techniques going on, but once I become conscious of what's going on, I usually am able to control the slow nasal stream of air, and regain my breath within a few breathing cycles.

Last edited by sclim : 03-21-2016 at 02:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-21-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weakandpuny View Post
So yesterday I started my warmup and was feeling pretty good. Ended up doing a 500 yard unplanned Time Trial in 9:20. Rested for several minutes, then put on the snorkel and did 1400 yards easy, in 200-300 yard sets with short rest periods, in 36:57. With the snorkel I was working on ingraining the high elbow/wider swing recovery that Coach Suzanne recommended.

It was my 7th consecutive day swimming.

Today, on my 8th consecutive day swimming I was falling apart and couldn't get my breathing right. The below video (sorry about the quality) doesn't do justice to how bad I was today.

What the hell is my malfunction?!?! I'm gonna swim again tomorrow, because I don't give up, but I really figured if I swim every day, I would not backslide.

http://youtu.be/42HretPZcTk
1) Take a rest day, they are important. if not for your muscles for your nervous system.

2) you're starting yoru stroking before your letting yoru recovery arm in. Your starting yoru stroke by pushing water sideways, rather than anchoring your arm and allowing the weight shift to begin your stroke. The result is that your TRYING to move forward, but hte strokign arm pushes water sideways and to compensate for the non-forward movement the kick is overpowering causing a splash and not contributing towards body rotation.

3) the recovery arm is almost an afterthought, despite the fact you've worked on it a bunch.

What Im describing may not be waht you are thinking, but it's what it appears.

The recovery comes really late in the whole sequence, but it's vital to trigger all the things that you need to make your swimming more efficient.

Think of a rolling ball in a rube goldberg machine...gravity pulls that little rolling ball through a twisty maze where it falls, hits a lever that triggers another weight which hit's a trigger that cuts a rubber band taht's been storing up energy , etc etc.... it's all effortless energy that happens by the movement of the ball falling.

in your case your recovery is being directed by your hand which is reaching forward...the weigh tof your arm trails behind and gets stuck resulting in a jerky forward movement. Inside though, you know it's time for your stroke to begin, so the lead hand starts...but goes off track to the side, the legs fight to keep things moving forward and the last pieces it he recovery hand finally stabs forward into the water.

You're applying all sorts of braking forces to your strok ethat I don't htink were there before, or at least I didn't notices them.

The fix...first take a day off. Watch videos of Terry's open water swimming videos...how his recovery arm is moved from the cetner of his body outward and the hand only follows because it happens to be attached. The recovery arm falls into the water as rotation begins, which allows his stroking arm to engage and his body to move past and forward. The legs respond easily.

it's always a work in progress.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-21-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 29
weakandpuny
Default

Thank you, Sclim, for not just the compliment, but also for helping me realize I'm not the only swimmer in the history of swimming who has ever regressed.

You're right, Coach Suzanne, and thanks again for the continued guidance. I didn't have the problems you adressed before, and I don't know why they appeared now. I could actually feel the LACK of momentum and glide throughout my entire swim. I did indeed take the day off from the pool. I have organized swim practice tomorrow night, so I'll be back at it.
__________________
Poor Swimmer / Weak Cyclist / Slow Runner

Last edited by weakandpuny : 03-21-2016 at 04:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-21-2016
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 671
jenson1a
Default

Don't know if this is worth looking at, but I noticed something in weakandpuny's video that I have seen in my own stroke. If you slow the video down to .5, and especially between 9 and 15 seconds, watch the recovery arm and notice how the elbow makes a splash on arm entry. Is the entry too flat and does this cause any drag?

Sherry
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-21-2016
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
Don't know if this is worth looking at, but I noticed something in weakandpuny's video that I have seen in my own stroke. If you slow the video down to .5, and especially between 9 and 15 seconds, watch the recovery arm and notice how the elbow makes a splash on arm entry. Is the entry too flat and does this cause any drag?

Sherry


A little bit and right worse than left, but this is more a symptom of leading the recovery with teh hand (and resulting flat entry) rather than leading with the upper back/scapula/shoulder muscles for recovery. If he can use shoulder girdle for control of the recovery arm and let the forearm hang, the entry will take care of itself.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Coach of 4 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-22-2016
tomoy tomoy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 585
tomoy
Default

Revisiting your stroke with the latest video - I think that for certain distance like 100-400, your current effort is reasonable. But I'd like to see you ease off the gas a little, focus less on propelling yourself forward, and a little more on floating and balance. I think it might help you sense/learn the feel of the water that these various practices seek to imprint. Thats my 2¢ for tonight. Looking pretty good, but room for improvement. Remember, you're looking great, so don't beat yourself up. Just try to objectively knock down one skill at a time. You'll get there.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-23-2016
weakandpuny weakandpuny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 29
weakandpuny
Default

Thanks Coach Suzanne, Tomoy and Jenson 1a for the continued support and advice. Last night I participated in a Masters swim session and tried very hard to control my recovery while letting my forearm hang. I have no idea if I was successful without seeing it on video, but it was a heck of a lot better than my fatigued, frustrated effort a couple days prior.

An extra thanks to Tomoy for the positive words and reminder to not beat myself up. My dumb Type-A self just stresses (often) thinking about being 6 months away from the ocean swim of my chosen 70.3.

Attached are a couple images from my Garmin Connect, which supports the encouragement given by the forum. I love you guys.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (10.0 KB, 12 views)
__________________
Poor Swimmer / Weak Cyclist / Slow Runner

Last edited by weakandpuny : 03-23-2016 at 06:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.