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  #51  
Old 02-09-2012
TomH TomH is offline
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My experience has been that the recovery / catch-pull time ratio varies depending on SR and SPL.

For example, in my swimming, at a TT setting of 1.40 I feel that the recovery / pull time ratio is high with a slow relaxed recovery. At a TT setting of 1.10, I sense a much lower recovery/pull time ratio. At the 1.10 setting, I focus on a very quick recovery to get a good set up for the next catch.

The ratio also varies for me at different SPLs. At a TT setting of 1.16, I can swim no more than 1 length (25 y) with an SPL of 13. If I want to swim 100 or 200 continuous yards with a consistent SPL at 1.16, I need swim with an SPL of 15. When I am trying to hit 15 SPL, I focus on speeding up the recovery and easing back on the pull. The recovery/ pull time ratio is noticably lower for me at 15 SPL than at 13 SPL.
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  #52  
Old 02-09-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I am getting confused here the descriptions do not match the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BJCx...eature=related

Shinji's video here is nice high quality. My brain sees the following timing, spear and glide 1,2,3 pull 4, recover 5 and 6. So the relaxed recovery is twice as long as the pull phase?
Andy, Shinji is just deomonstrating how/when/where to apply power in the stroke. He is still stroking at a fairly liesurely rate (i didn't measure it) hence the recovery is slow. He can swim even faster if he were to recovery slightly faster.

Shinji is demonstrating the skill that would be needed to descend a set while keeping the same stroke count...forcing the underwatr stroke to have more Oooph while keepign recovery easy to keep stroke count low.

If he were to increase the tempo by 2 ticks or so (0.02) you'd likely not see a stronger pull, but a faster recovery.

As yourself what the benefit is of prolonging recovery artificially or more than needed? The arm just creates weight that tends to push you underwater the longer it lingers there. Yes we use that weight as a counter - rotation as well, but at faster speeds, this changes.

For beginners, it's a far better stroke to increase recoveyr & keep underwater the same. What shinji demonstrates is dangerous for some as pulling to hard, or trying to accelerate by adding power frequently causes derangement of many other parts of the stroke and removes focus from the streamlining/spearing action.

What makes a TI stroke a TI stroke?
It's the commonality of the physics and biomechanics that leads to streamlined, balanced swimming. Linear balance, hang the head, hang the hands, spearing through the mail slot, gathering water at the catch, patient lead hand waiting for next arm to spear so that the swim is streamline left to streamline right. Lots of great swimmers swim this way. We don't call it TI because we didn't teach them. The likely didn't learn via Superman Glide, skate, spear skate, swing skate, swing switch swim. But TI isn't defined by the timing you highlight...it just happens to be a nice rhythm that describes (as opposed to defines) the stroke at lower, more leisurely rates.
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Last edited by CoachSuzanne : 02-09-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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  #53  
Old 02-09-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post

What makes a TI stroke a TI stroke?
It's the commonality of the physics and biomechanics that leads to streamlined, balanced swimming. Linear balance, hang the head, hang the hands, spearing through the mail slot, gathering water at the catch, patient lead hand waiting for next arm to spear so that the swim is streamline left to streamline right. Lots of great swimmers swim this way. We don't call it TI because we didn't teach them. The likely didn't learn via Superman Glide, skate, spear skate, swing skate, swing switch swim. But TI isn't defined by the timing you highlight...it just happens to be a nice rhythm that describes (as opposed to defines) the stroke at lower, more leisurely rates.
Thanks Suzanne, this is a great post and a super definition of the TI stroke. But since there is a conception in the swimming community that TI is all about gliding, more videos of people swimming fast using TI principles would eliminate that misconception.
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  #54  
Old 02-09-2012
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Thanks Suzanne, this is a great post and a super definition of the TI stroke. But since there is a conception in the swimming community that TI is all about gliding, more videos of people swimming fast using TI principles would eliminate that misconception.
Andy,
In this video, Shinji is swimming up to TT 1.0 (at the end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUkf1FI4Toc

Do you see the 6/8-TI timing ?

To me, the ratio looks the same as its leasury pace. That seems to corroborate your "TI timing" concept.

What do you think ?

(And I agree that fast swimming videos (as opposed to drills) of TI-taught swimmers are missing)

Last edited by DD_l_enclume : 02-09-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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  #55  
Old 02-09-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Also, I've attached proof of my concept.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ShortenRecovery.jpg (21.8 KB, 45 views)
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Fresh Freestyle

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  #56  
Old 02-09-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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at 1.0 Shinji is still showing a relatively leisurely recovery, but I think Suzanne has explained the theory correctly, assuming that at 0.8 Shinji would pick his recovery speed up even more.

It seems relaxed recovery is something to employ as far as your technique will allow, so Sun Yang at 65 strokes a minute will look a lot more relaxed than me, just as I will look more relaxed at 50 strokes a minute than a guy who hasn't considered technique.

Its great news for me, I can swim with a faster recovery and not feel I am deserting the TI concept.

I could even be a coach one day on that premise (If the wife lets me move back to UK)
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  #57  
Old 02-10-2012
galax galax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Let yourself add a stroke...see hwo long you can swim 17 SPL. Do a little bit at 16 SPL (maybe 4 x 25, 3 x 50, 2 x 75, 3 x 50, 4 x 25) Then do 100, 150, 200, etc at 17 SPL and see how long you can sustain it. Then repeat the 16 SPL set. .
I followed your advice,yesterday I devoted the main part of my practice in trying to swim "easy" adding one or two strokes per length.
I swum many laps using 17 strokes.
But when the distance is longer than 200m , my swim was not really "easy".
I realize that "stroke saving" shouldn't be achieved with a stronger pull phase ( like in cycling : using the smallest rear gear..)
Generally, when I swim at slow frequences, my instinct force me to dedicate more attention to pushing phase.
What are , in your opinion, the better thoughts or focal points to avoid this ?
Many thanks in advance
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