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  #1  
Old 11-07-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Default Suggestions for improving the initiation of the catch

I understand we initiate the catch by having a high elbow and dropping the forearm under the elbow. While doing the dry land exercises the forearm can easily be dropped under the high elbow since there is not much resistance, but in water where we face a lot more resistance, how to achieve this? How to get into the catch position without much force before applying power in the pull phase?

Last edited by arunks : 11-07-2011 at 06:42 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2011
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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For me it is easier in water. As soon as you loosen the hand and forearm they drop down on their own because of the water resistance.

It's a funny thing with dry land exercises. It's a bit as if you are doing the same as in water. But i am convinced that for the brain and it's pattern storing function these simply are two completely different movements. The brain has to coordinate muscle activity according to the resistance that the sensory input reports. That is so different in water and on dry land. I don't think that dry land exercises help your water movements at all. The brain simply stores and remembers two patterns - one on land and one in water. You can become good in both ;-) It doesn't get the idea that those two are supposed to be the same even if you yourself think so.

If you want to strengthen your neuronal patterns about your swim stroke I am afraid you have to jump in the water and do the stroke.

Last edited by haschu33 : 11-07-2011 at 05:11 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I found the catch harder in the water until I realised I needed a little in-sweep. By this I mean I spear my hand on a wide rail track but as I bring it vertical for the catch I in-sweep it so that it is approximately one hands width nearer my shoulder than when I speared. You can also think about the outer edge of the palm as controlling the catch rather than the inner.

This motion is much more about bending the elbow joint than over rotating the shoulder. Its also why I think a lot of elite swimmers appear to have a slight diamond shape to their pull
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Haschu, Andy, thank you for the inputs.Haschu you make an interesting point. I agree that the mediums are different and hence brain perceives it differently but I feel these exercises(Isometric..) at least help to build on strength to perform the action in water.
I am working on a few drills to improve on the catch like the High elbow sculling(feels great with the high elbows and the feel of the water), one arm freestyle(working on my weaker side).Hopefully this will improve my catch.

Andy, can you throw more light on the diamond shape pull?

Last edited by arunks : 11-08-2011 at 01:16 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Not sure if this helps and no expert but this is one of my focuses at the moment so will share my studies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPPpzl6xSRU

some underwater stills of keri ann payne and then ian thorpe, (although actually hers is straighter than I thought).

when you form your catch you have two angles to think about, the angle your upper arm makes with your shoulder (how high your elbow is in the water) and secondly the inside angle of the elbow joint in relation to your upper and lower arm. If your shoulder is slightly dropped but your elbow makes a 90 degree angle with fore and upper arm, you will effectively form a half diamond shape with your arm relative to the water.

If you look at footage of grant hackett underwater he has nearly 90 degrees for both, but other elite swimmers manage with less of each.

This is one of the big swimming debates, however, elite swimmers consistently get their forearm vertical in the water during the catch phase to use as a paddle, its the angles they employ to drive that paddle that are different.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2011
jfdong jfdong is offline
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Today I tried to practice EVF. TT@1.20, I felt that I couldn't breathe well and I couldn't comfortably keep my form well. Eventually, I increased TT to 1.40. Then I felt that I was sort of doing EVF, but not completely sure.

Are there any TI drills that can help learn it?
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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@Andy Thank you for sharing that info.

@jfdong I am not sure of the TI drills but I am finding these drills very helpful.Hope this helps.

Last edited by arunks : 11-08-2011 at 01:28 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Default Is this HEC exercise possible by you?

Found an interesting video which says if HEC can easily be done or not by people using this exercise.
Is this the kind of shoulder and elbow rotation one should strive for?What are your observations and views on this?

My observation:

I was able to rotate the elbows quite easily when the palms grounded but when lifted needed more shoulder rotation and was able to do it more easily with my right arm than my left.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2011
che9194 che9194 is offline
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This may be a chicken and egg comment, but I wonder if we focus too much on the physics of the catch (position/angle of hand, forearm, elbow, shoulder, sweeping, EVF, etc) and not enough on connecting the catch to the hip rotation that generates the propulsion. When I look at video of elite swimmers, everyone's catch looks a little different suggesting that there is not really a correct (precise) technique.

I personally like the single-arm spearswitch drill to help develop a connection between the hips and the arms.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by che9194 View Post
This may be a chicken and egg comment, but I wonder if we focus too much on the physics of the catch (position/angle of hand, forearm, elbow, shoulder, sweeping, EVF, etc) and not enough on connecting the catch to the hip rotation that generates the propulsion. When I look at video of elite swimmers, everyone's catch looks a little different suggesting that there is not really a correct (precise) technique.

I personally like the single-arm spearswitch drill to help develop a connection between the hips and the arms.
I understand that catch needs to connected to the hip rotation.I know Terry emphasises "on anchoring the hand and using weight shifts to move past the anchor".If this not working well, don't you think one should consider these(EVF..) for an efficient catch in the front quadrant to connect the catch with the hip rotation, as Coach Dave and Coach Todd Erickson talk in these posts.

Last edited by arunks : 11-08-2011 at 10:03 PM.
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