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  #1  
Old 10-19-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Default How to avoid slippage of the lead hand while the other arm recovers??

Today when I was practising, I noticed that when my left arm was extended and the right arm was recovering the left arm tended to slip down, conversely when the left arm was recovering and the right arm was extended, it was fine.So my question is why is this happening and how to eliminate slippage of the lead hand and get it anchored.Are there specific drills to work on to help enable this?
I welcome all your suggestions.

Thanks
Arun

Last edited by arunks : 10-19-2011 at 05:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2011
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Sometimes this happens to me when I'm subconsciously trying to lift my head out of the water to breath. Or even not when breathing, the habit is there to keep my head higher, and my body does this by pushing down my lead hand.

I counter this, by focusing on rotating my head on its laser axis and letting my body sink to its natural level. Not sure which drills might help. I'm sure others will have good ideas.
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2011
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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I agree with Tomoy. It's probably your breathing and I bet you breathe on the right side. Coach Suzanne has some great advice on breathing. See her post from 12/03/10:

http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ight=breathing
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2011
terry terry is offline
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Arun
Prior to reading Tomoy's and DD's posts I was going to ask - are you, or were you originally, a right-side breather. I was originally a left-side breather and 15+ yrs after starting TI that was still somewhat true of me: My right hand was less firm in catch. I finally made significant progress toward firming up the right catch after rupturing the biceps tendon in my R shoulder in Oct 2005. Five months of enforced 'careful' swimming then another 5 months of therapeutic swimming after surgery to staple the tendon back to the bone in Feb 2006 were the opportunity I needed to firm up that catch.
Better balance, more stability and a feel for patiently 'cultivating' water pressure on your left hand are the cure.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Thank you Terry for your suggestions and yes I am a right side breather. Regarding the anchoring of hands, I found these really good posts:

http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...p?t=573&page=3
http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/...ead.php?t=1313

Excerpts from these posts:
Andreasl33 says
"Anchoring does not mean that your body comes to a stop (like when "throwing the anchor"). It merely means that your pulling/stroking arm (nearly) comes to a stop from the viewpoint of an outside observer (not from the viewpoint of the swimmer), which means it slips very little while you pull, just like an anchor should not slip when you pull the chain. In other words, a well anchored pulling arm can sustain a lot of pressure without slipping a lot, allowing you to pull/push your body further forward per stroke.
The amount of slip is determined by three things:
1. How much pressure is applied. More pressure yields more slip.
2. How well one anchors
3. How well one streamlines ."

Coach Eric says
"While moving slowly, there is no way to avoid all slip. The faster you go, the more momentum adds to your effort and the less you slip.*

The most important thing is that there is a huge difference between reality and intention. And there is a huge difference in feel. If you intend to hold onto water, you will connect your body better and get more out of your arm than if you intend to pull."

Regarding Terry's point about "patiently cultivating water pressure", let me know your views.Thanks.

Last edited by arunks : 11-13-2011 at 07:19 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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I had been working on avoiding the slippage of the lead hand and I feel I found my aha moment today when I speared a bit shallow which lead me to better balance and I was able to breathe easily without the slippage of the lead hand by extending my lead arm forward which helps to lengthen the body(better balance and streamline) as Grant Hackett shows in this video.(A gem of a video..) This also leads to a better catch and improved breathing technique. Since there is a lot of discussion going on catch recently, let me tell you ,the secret lies in timing of the catch(set up by the hip rotation), setting up of the catch(shoulder rotation or elbow flexion) and keeping a high elbow through out the pull.

I hope this helps people who may be working on these issues.

Last edited by arunks : 11-13-2011 at 09:51 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I too found this hard until I started to think of both my spearing arms as putting on a seater, up and out and then on my breathing side really leaning my head on my arm.

My spears were also a little too straight until I studied Sinjis CGI video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JukMa6-V1pE

and consciously aimed for 11 and 1 oclock when spearing. This stopped my lead arm dropping on my breathing side overnight.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2011
dshen dshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arunks View Post
Today when I was practising, I noticed that when my left arm was extended and the right arm was recovering the left arm tended to slip down, conversely when the left arm was recovering and the right arm was extended, it was fine.So my question is why is this happening and how to eliminate slippage of the lead hand and get it anchored.Are there specific drills to work on to help enable this?
I welcome all your suggestions.

Thanks
Arun
i was reading this thread and it seems that you are talking about your left hand dropping down when you say "slip down" and not about slipping during the catch (although that may be happening as well). is that what you originally meant?

if so, that can be caused by when you take a breath as many have pointed out, as you may be reflexively pressing down on the water to push your head up out of the water.

you can also try extending the arm more, and opening up your armpit, such that you feel a stretch there. this helps the arm stay extended forward during the whole period and resists dropping.

when you swim long distance or during the last part of a long workout, fatigue can also mean your spearing arm may start to drop because you may be losing energy to keep that arm up via muscle strength. try to stop the dropping by extending forward instead so that you minimize the effort of muscles attempting to lift the arm in the water.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshen View Post
i was reading this thread and it seems that you are talking about your left hand dropping down when you say "slip down" and not about slipping during the catch (although that may be happening as well). is that what you originally meant?

if so, that can be caused by when you take a breath as many have pointed out, as you may be reflexively pressing down on the water to push your head up out of the water.

you can also try extending the arm more, and opening up your armpit, such that you feel a stretch there. this helps the arm stay extended forward during the whole period and resists dropping.

when you swim long distance or during the last part of a long workout, fatigue can also mean your spearing arm may start to drop because you may be losing energy to keep that arm up via muscle strength. try to stop the dropping by extending forward instead so that you minimize the effort of muscles attempting to lift the arm in the water.
Hi Dshen.Thank you for the advice. I really like the stroke thought of keeping the open armpit. I think this will also help in the initiation of the catch. Will work on this.
The slippage used to happen both when going for breath and when not going for breath. I am still working on my breathing technique, although I am not lifting the head I still have the tendency to over rotate the head for breathing.By extending the arms forward leading to better balance I feel this is helping me for better breathing.

Last edited by arunks : 11-18-2011 at 03:47 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2011
arunks arunks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
I too found this hard until I started to think of both my spearing arms as putting on a seater, up and out and then on my breathing side really leaning my head on my arm.

My spears were also a little too straight until I studied Sinjis CGI video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JukMa6-V1pE

and consciously aimed for 11 and 1 oclock when spearing. This stopped my lead arm dropping on my breathing side overnight.
I hadn't observed the CG video you posted on Shinji carefully.I wasn’t aware Shinji speared the arm in sort of a v fashion.I know one needs to avoid the crossover but don’t you think most of the forward momentum brought by the recovered arm moves side ways when done like this? Look at this video. See how the arm spears forwards straight in front of the shoulders.IMO, I think this is more natural.Also I don't think the normal catch can be initiated from that angle.How efficient is the catch from the V angle? What do you think?

Last edited by arunks : 11-15-2011 at 07:06 AM.
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